How to Build a Meaningful Podcast: Storytelling, Sponsorships & Staying Lit Up with Hannah Davison

How to create a podcast that resonates (and monetises) with heart
If you’re a podcaster or thinking about starting one, chances are you’ve got more than just downloads on your mind. You want to create something that feels human, real, and aligned. Something that connects. And ideally? Pays the bills, too.

That’s exactly what Hannah Davison has built alongside her co-host Matilda Green with their podcast Untidy. Since launching, the show has grown a loyal community and developed a unique voice in the podcasting landscape. One rooted in storytelling, honesty and shared humanity.

In a recent episode of Wanna Podcast?, Hannah sat down to talk about how they’ve done it. From the art of interviewing and emotional balance to monetisation, burnout, and keeping the joy alive, here’s what we learned.

1. Great Interviewing Starts with Curiosity and Humanity

For Hannah, strong interviewing isn’t about flashy questions. It’s about listening deeply and following emotional cues.

“Everyone has a story,” she says, likening her interview mindset to being on a bad date and deciding to find that one thing the other person is passionate about. That spark is where the conversation starts to open up.

She stresses the importance of empathy, presence, and being willing to bring some of your own vulnerability into the space, too:

“If I can get to the humanity of the person, that’s where I want to be.”

2. Balancing Depth and Lightness

Untidy often tackles heavy or emotionally charged topics, but Hannah and Matilda are masters at knowing when to hold space and when to lighten the mood.

“No one wants to feel awful the entire time,” Hannah explains. Striking that emotional balance helps make tough topics more digestible, while also keeping listeners engaged and coming back.

They always aim for their audience to walk away feeling “empowered, connected and seen.”

3. Storytelling with Integrity

Storytelling is at the heart of podcasting, but with it comes responsibility.

Some topics will naturally spark curiosity, but Hannah urges podcasters to think about more than just clicks or virality. The why behind each episode should always be clear and considerate of both the guest and the listener.

“You’ve got to be careful not to be gratuitous… You have to respect that someone’s experience doesn’t define who they are as a human.”

4. How Untidy Monetises Their Podcast

When it comes to making money, Untidy primarily monetises through sponsorships and host-read ads. But only with brands that are genuinely aligned.

“We won’t work with anyone whose product we wouldn’t use ourselves,” Hannah says.

Dynamic ad insertion, live event sponsorships, and occasional social media activations are all part of the mix. While they haven’t yet launched things like Apple Podcast subscriptions or Patreon, they’re on the radar.

Her biggest tip for finding the right sponsors? Go direct. Reach out to brands you already love and use, and show them the value your show offers.

5. Avoiding Burnout and Staying Motivated

Despite the workload, Hannah says motivation isn’t an issue because she genuinely loves what she does.

That said, she acknowledges how easy it is for podcasters to burn out, especially if they try to do everything themselves. Her advice? Don’t be afraid to outsource or take a break when needed.

“It’s possible to do every part of the podcast. But that doesn’t mean you should. Focus on where your energy is best spent.”

6. Final Advice for Aspiring Podcasters

If you’re just starting out, Hannah recommends connecting with other creators and not being afraid to ask for help.

“People in the industry, especially here in New Zealand, are really accessible. Just knock on the door of their DMs.”

And remember, passion goes a long way. Podcasting is intimate and personal, and when your heart’s in it, your audience feels that.

Ready to Launch?

If you’re inspired to start your own show but want a clear, actionable plan, check out the Launch Your Podcast Starter Kit. It’s packed with templates, checklists, and guidance to help you go from idea to publish… without the overwhelm.

🎧 Want more interviews like this? Subscribe to Wanna Podcast? and never miss an episode.

• Transcript

  Speaker 2 (00:10.274)

  Wanna podcast? Kia ora, I'm Maxine, podcast producer, audio nerd and founder of Maxine London Creative. Let's explore what it takes to start and maintain a successful podcast. I'll chat with industry experts, podcast hosts and fellow audio nerds on everything about the wonderful world of podcasting. We'll talk techniques, trends and top tips to get you started on your podcast journey. Whether you're a podcast newbie or you've been here a while, welcome. Wanna podcast?

  Today I'm talking to Hannah Davison. Hannah is the author and co-founder of My Big Moments Children's Books and the co-host and co-producer of Untidy Podcast. Untidy is a multi-award winning podcast which has most recently been awarded gold for the best parenting podcast at the New Zealand Podcast Awards. Untidy aims to honor the person within the parent and alongside co-host Matilda Green,

  They dive into a bunch of gritty topics like sex and relationships, mental health, healing, body issues, identity questions, and so much more with a range of experts and guests. Now, disclaimer here, I do edit this podcast and I help them with their submission for the podcast awards last year. But in my humble opinion, Hannah and Matilda do an excellent job at navigating tricky conversations with heart and humility.

  They bring their listeners in on an emotional journey and I often laugh out loud while I'm editing the podcast. Hannah often puts her social and dating life at jeopardy for the sake of good content. And it also says on her Instagram, Wrangler of Things, which I know after working with Hannah for almost a year now is very, very appropriate. Thank you so much, Hannah, for joining me today.

  Hey, thank you, Maxine. Very excited to be on your podcast. And do you know what's so nice? It's this great sense of liberation and that like, I don't have to worry about where the podcast goes, what's happening with the time, you know, like I can just sit back and bang on about myself and you've got to do all the work. It's so refreshing.

  Speaker 2 (02:16.108)

  Yeah, well, mean, what's different from usual? I'm always doing all the work,

  It's so true. Someone's got to be on top of it.

  No, no, I love, I love it. let's start at the beginning. Now talk me through the inspiration behind untidy podcast.

  Okay. Well, it was quite an organic kind of evolution, I would say, because everything started with the My Big Moments books that myself and co-founder, nearly called her a co-flounder. Sometimes that's how it feels. We're just co-flounding. We're co-flounding our way. Flickr Williams. And so we developed this range of books, helping kids through difficult situations in their early life.

  And we started to talk about those books and part of the marketing was we would get in touch with influencers and send them an appropriate book personalized for their child. And they would influence people about them. Anyway, this is how we initially met Maddie and she loved the book so much that she slid back into our DMs and was like, Hey, how do I get in? We started talking really because of the My Big Moments books. then what we found.

  Speaker 1 (03:28.076)

  We met up a couple of times. In fact, we had a really awkward first date where we saw each other across the street and we made eye contact. And then the pedestrian light just would not turn green. So we just stood there on other sides of the road, looking at each other, wondering how we could get through this awkward situation. Anyway, when we connected, we just clicked. Like we just had an immediate rapport and we had the best time and conversation just...

  flowed and we laughed and yeah, we just really connected. And so we knew we wanted to work together and it just wasn't going to be the books. We just weren't big enough to have someone else involved. But what we knew is that we wanted to collaborate. And in fact, it was the moment we were having one meeting where her boobs leaked.

  Cause she was breastfeeding at that time and her boobs leaked. And then she was like, my God, how embarrassing. I'm like, well, no, it's not like this is just how it is as a mom, know? It's so, isn't it? So relatable. And so we were laughing about this. And then as I was driving away from that meeting, I was like, this is a podcast. The thing that we need to make that we want to make together. Like this is a podcast. These are conversations we want to have.

  about originally it was going to be called like behind closed doors about all the conversations that stay behind closed doors where people often suffer in isolation and loneliness and things are left unsaid or there's stigma or people feel like they can't talk about what's going on. you know, often in early motherhood, I think especially like it can feel extremely isolating and lonely.

  And you want to hear voices you can relate to people who understand the journey that you're on, people who you can laugh along with at the chaos of it all. so this is how Untidy was born. But I would say that from when we first came up with the idea to when we launched, it was a good 18 months. Seems like a long time, but there are reasons. Go on.

  Speaker 2 (05:36.982)

  mean, podcasting, there is a lot more to think about than you at first realize. You know, there's all the background stuff that you have to do, you have to get all the equipment and you know, it is actually a bigger job than people sometimes think. Like everyone says, we should totally do a podcast on that. But not that many people actually then go through and do the podcast. So tell me what did that 18 months look like? Like what were the first steps that you took once you decided, okay, this is it, this is what we're going to do.

  Okay. But I would say on the point that you just made is that the beautiful thing about podcasts is that it is such a simple, clean, accessible, consumable product at end of the day, which is why people go, let's just make a podcast. Like it looks easy and it's very enjoyable, but inevitably you're like, why don't we just do this thing? And then you get halfway into it you're like, oh, it's bigger than we thought.

  you know, there was a lot of brainstorming about what we wanted to talk about, how it was going to look, the kind of people that we wanted to interview. Initially, it was going to be a limited season of 12 episodes, which were just interviews. Now that's not what we do now. And so what we needed to learn then was all about the equipment, making decisions around that, you know, how are we going to record? Where were we going to record? Initially, we did everything in person, which was great. We got a road caster. We got a couple of

  Samson Q2U mics, and we just traveled around with our little podcasting suitcase and off we went. And then we had to learn, just even, you know, like how to use the mic and how to guide our guests on things and all the settings. there was just so, it was such a learning curve. We actually started approaching guests and recording them and getting them edited and all that was actually pretty smooth.

  There were definitely some that ended up in the bin. Some of that was because we just got the settings so wrong on the road caster. And some of that was because of guest issues, sound issues. So, and that's heartbreaking when you have, particularly when you're interviewing in person, you know, it's, it's so engaging and it's so moving. A lot of the time, you know, you finish that interview and you're like,

  Speaker 1 (08:01.4)

  thing just happened, you know. That's such a focused conversation that you're having when you're really bringing things out of the person that you're talking to and you're also being vulnerable in yourself. And I think that's a really important part of it is to allow that vulnerability in yourself and to offer that into the conversation to the person you're talking to and also to the audience. But yeah, some things ended up in the bin for sure. And then we were just going to be independent and, you know, self-publish the whole thing.

  and self-fund the whole thing. But then we happened to get introduced to MediaWorks, which I can now say was because of Tinder, because I was dating and I met someone who worked at MediaWorks and they're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I think, I think we could help you. And then that actually slowed things down because we needed to work out our contract with them and how that was going to work. And we wanted to be really

  protective of our intellectual property. We wanted to make sure that we retained creative direction and we wanted to make sure that if we wanted to step away, that we were going to be able to step away. And so we just had to be really, really particular about everything that was in the contracts that slowed things down. Also what slowed things down was they were like, well, we can monetize this. we initially, because we knew nothing about podcasting was like, we were just totally going to self-fund it for free. And then we're like, what would be nice is to get paid for our work.

  That actually would be a real treat, you know? But then that kind of, that really slowed things down as well because getting sponsorship isn't that easy. We were a podcast that, you know, while Maddie is incredibly well known and well liked, we were not a proven product. We had no listener base. We had a lot of concept. had some, like, I think we could send people like two or three episodes that they could listen to in advance of them being, of the podcast being launched. And that's really all we had. And.

  We also had to figure out, you know, how to price ourselves in the market, what we were going to offer as part of those sponsorship packages. And that all took time to get right. Yeah. But then once we had sponsors engaged, then we actually could launch. So it wasn't till, it was actually Valentine's day. So we've got a very romantic anniversary, 2023 that we did eventually launch.

  Speaker 2 (10:23.627)

  That is such a journey from the meat cute at the traffic lights to Valentine's Day.

  it's so beautiful. It's so beautiful. I know it's, we're adorable. And then I guess, I don't know if you want me to keep banging on, like how the podcast, it kind of got a life of its own and evolved because what we do now is not what we were doing then. And we had to change.

  What a mate, cute.

  Speaker 2 (10:45.496)

  Talk me through how the show has evolved over time.

  Love to. So yeah, we were initially going to just do 12 EPS, limited seasons. And then we'd do a season. Then in between, in a break between the two, we'd go, okay, are we going to do it again? But then we were like, well, now we have sponsors and they're on for a period of time and they want results. And if we want to continue, and what we realized was that we loved it as well. We loved it. Like nothing makes us happier than sitting down and banging on.

  into microphones, having conversations with people like that's a job. It's so good. And then we were like, well, do we keep, do we, do we just keep going? You know, is this what we're going to do? Seemed like a great idea financially that made sense. We love what we'd built. And then once you've sort of built and you've started kind of like feeding that content machine, the content machine gets hungry and you have to continually feed the content machine and in scenario, only two happy to do that. The other thing that we discovered was that

  We'd ended up with a whole lot of, you know, what would have just ended up on the cutting room floor, bonus material where we're just bantering away, having a lot of laughs and being quite silly. And then we kind of thought, well, this is, this is good. Like we're enjoying this. I think other people might too. So what we started to do was put out what we initially called bonus episodes, which was Maddie and I just talking shit and laughing and telling stories and being embarrassing.

  And people really resonated with it. They loved it. so we were like, well, I think we kind of underappreciated what we ourselves could bring to the show and bring to our audience because what a lot of these people need is a damn good yarn. Like you spend all day with people with their little sticky fingers pulling at your jeans, you know. Actually what you need sometimes is a damn good yarn. So then the bonus material.

  Speaker 1 (12:44.866)

  just became part of the show. And so what we do now is we alternate between an episode with us being silly and embarrassing and laughing a lot. And, sometimes having chewier conversations about whatever's going on and bringing a lot of us and what's going on and just being very real into the show. And then we have episodes with experts, we were exploring different topics or people with amazing stories. And that balance seems to work really well. And it works, think.

  from a production aspect as well, considering we're working moms, we have other jobs as well, from a production aspect, it makes it sustainable too. We've never been so delighted with our brand because we called it untidy, which actually means that we can just be very real about how life is because there was a time when, you know, there was the opportunity to be recording in a studio all the time.

  and look really polished. Now you can see the background. This is my spare room slash office. Okay. This is not polished. There's sadly for me glow in the dark stars on the ceiling in this room, which I hate, which I'm too scared to remove because I'm

  I never noticed that.

  Or now you won't see it. There's going to be just like some sort of like vintage blue tack horror underneath that I can't cope with. It's not, look, it's not polished and it's not perfect, but this is real life. And I think having the brand that we have allows us to go, yeah, this is real life. also means that, you know, we can essentially record from anywhere. Our podcasting gear, you can just, you know, pack up into a little box and take with you. If you're on the road, if you're traveling, we...

  Speaker 1 (14:27.762)

  Usually record at home. Maddie at the moment is recording in an office at the hits before she starts doing the radio show in the afternoon. And so we had to make it sustainable and our brand has really worked into that. And I think if we had gone down that although very alluring route of, Hey, recording a studio, we're going to make you look really polished and it's going to be this, it's going to be that. would have become very unsustainable for us. So I think depending on, on your brand and your end product and

  who you're speaking to as well, like you've got to take all that into consideration.

  And I think that's really important too, because like what we were talking about, podcasting is and can be a lot of work, especially when you're having to keep feeding that content machine, as you were saying. So being able to keep it sustainable and do things intentionally in your strategy that can help you maintain a certain level or a certain frequency of release dates or whatever, like that's actually key. So that actually leads me in quite nicely to my next question about

  Talk me through how you prep for each episode.

  Yeah, so it's quite different between the two different types of episodes. Literally for the ones where it's Maddie and I, we have a WhatsApp group just between us where we will drop in as little information as possible. So as not to give away what we want to talk about, but enough information to jog our memories about what the story is or the topic is. And so it's this incredibly cryptic chat, you know, where you'll just, just a screen grab will appear.

  Speaker 1 (16:03.368)

  or some random line will appear and you're like, where is this going to go? And so we just had this like little collection of things that we drop in so that when we record together, sometimes we go, okay, should we go here and then here and then here and then here? Okay, great, let's go. And that's literally all the prep that there is. Sometimes we just dive in and we just let it be chaotic. And that's part of the fun. And I think that's where...

  you know, we can just trust the kind of chemistry that we've got together and the very genuine friendship that we've got together because it really is two friends basically on the phone.

  And again, part of the brand as well. know sometimes when we've been editing, I've said, should I leave this bit in? And you're like, yeah, leave it in. It's chaotic. It's untidy.

  Yeah, exactly. Exactly right. And, and sometimes that's just part of the fun of it, that it is completely chaotic. And that's all the prep for our ones. And just remembering to turn up on time, you know, as best we can. Interviews completely different. Obviously we, even from the point of deciding who we're going to have on, like none of that is taken lightly. And the thing with our entire team is that we're a whole team of meditators.

  And then what about for interviews?

  Speaker 1 (17:14.646)

  And so there's actually a huge intuitive element to what we do. And a lot of it is, you know, when we're trying to decide if we should have someone on, we really only suggest it if we're like, I'm feeling this yourself. And then you go to the other person and you're like, are you feeling this? And they're like, yeah, okay, great. And that's how we'll decide that we have that person on. We want to think about, what's the angle of the interview going to be? How is this relevant? And how will this resonate with our listeners and our audience? What are the questions that they're going to?

  want to know, you know, what's happening in their lives, where there's going to be that similar rub for them. And so obviously, you know, we'll go and we'll look at what we can find on our guest, we'll figure out, okay, what are the, what are the parts that we want to pull from, also leaving space for it to go just in a completely different direction, which occasionally it has, but that's been a natural way for it to go. And so in that sense, and you're like, well, this is the natural flow of things and we'll go with it.

  And we'll sometimes look at some other things I've done occasionally, I listen to, not occasionally, sort of regularly. If they've been on other podcasts, I might listen to them because sometimes I want to hear the parts of what they speak about. If they're speaking about a topic they often speak about, what lights them up? Like what really lights them up? Because I want to bring that energy through in what they talk about on.

  untidy because a lot of it is about what is the energy that this person can bring to the conversation. I love how much that comes through.

  Yeah, that's a really good point because I do the same. love to listen to my guests speaking, not just from a content perspective, like not just what they're going to answer, what questions should I ask, but also how they will answer the question. And that's in terms of energy, like you say, but also like, are they a talker? Are they going to just talk my ear off? How many questions am I going to need to write? Or are they, am I going to need to really encourage more of a conversation to flow? And so yeah, I find listening to

  Speaker 2 (19:14.83)

  past interviews really useful for that.

  Yeah. Yeah. And, in fact, you know, I had an example of that recently with this person had an incredibly fascinating topic, but not a natural talker. And so then you got to go, okay, so how am I going to step through this conversation in a way that feels really natural and encouraging, but it is going to flow. And, and I think that that's where bringing out the things that

  that light them up as a person makes a big difference because then once they're on a roll with that and they've got that feeling, then it leads on to other things. And so yeah, we'll formulate the questions. Usually one of us will take the lead on prep and then we'll send that document to the other person to add things in or edit as they see fit. And we'll make sure that we're both well organized before we get on. So we know the topic well, we know who we're speaking to well, and then

  Yeah, we just go for it. And as we are interviewing the person, we obviously, we both have the prep doc up in front of us. So sometimes we actually have to make little notes to one another as we're going through, or sometimes we'll just be like deleting or adding things or something like that. So there's quite a bit of multitasking that's going on. The other thing I think about a lot is what's the audience going to want to know? Like if I was listening to this conversation, what are the questions that I would be dying to ask?

  And so when I'm asking a question, I'm asking because I can feel it. And it's a funny feeling. Like I can feel this kind of like prickle coming up, you know, from the field of this is going to be the thing that people are going to want to know or question or be curious about or an issue that they're dealing with themselves. And it's my job to feel what that is and bring that forward.

  Speaker 2 (21:08.498)

  Yeah, exactly. think keeping your audience front of mind for everything that you do in your podcast is absolutely crucial. You can have a podcast just because you love talking and it's for you, but don't expect your audience to resonate with it until you've brought them in on something and really created it for them. And building a community is really key to a successful podcast. Engaging with your listeners in a way that's relatable, makes them feel part of something bigger.

  And this is something that you have done so well with Untidy. Like you've built such a solid community and you make people feel like part of something bigger than themselves. Can you talk me through how you've built that?

  Yeah, that's always what we wanted. This has always been important because that's something that was a lifeline to me when I needed it. like, for example, after I got separated and was getting divorced and was living on my own, you know, co-parenting the kids, it was a very different time. And there was a huge shift in my life.

  at that time. And I realized that there was so much quiet around, which I don't like, you know, don't want things to be too quiet. I needed, I really crave conversation. I really craved connection. And what I found was with, you know, certain podcasts and hosts and shows that I listened to, I was actually getting a quite a great deal of that connection, that need for connection met. And so I realized how powerful that was. And I have a theory and I don't know if there's

  I don't know if science can back this up, but here's my theory is that to a great degree, your brain doesn't know the difference between a real conversation that you're having and involved in and something that you're just listening to. Because say like you're on the phone to someone, you can get off the phone, your need for connection has really been met. I think it's the same with podcasts. So if there's something going into your ear where you feel connected to the people that are speaking and you feel a sense of resonance.

  Speaker 1 (23:13.718)

  and familiarity, I think that actually does a huge amount for your mental health. It certainly did for me at a time when I needed it most. so understanding the power of that and understanding, you know, that our audience and some of the things that they were feeling and going through in that sense of isolation, that the community aspect was always really important to us. You know, we're making the show for the people in this steaming hot mess we call parenthood, or just in any steaming hot mess, because we've got a lot of people who listen who aren't parents.

  And we want to honor the person within the parent as well, because so often when you're a parent, know, you're, you're just kind of reduced to the role that you play in other people's lives and your sense of individuality and identity takes a back seat and that sucks. And so we, you know, we want to speak to them. And so we always made a point of making it inclusive and saying, Hey, like get in touch and like, tell us who do you want us to talk to? And what do you want us to talk about? And what are the issues that are going on for you? And what do you think about that?

  and made a real point of being responsive to our audience as well. And it's so lovely when people will actually come up and say hi, or they send a message, they tell us a story. they genuinely are such an important part of it because it really helps to shape the show. Because we need to understand what is happening with people. And we want to have that reciprocal relationship with them as well. So Instagram really is the home.

  the biggest home for our community. And, you know, we invite people to email us as well. The Instagram DMs is really where it's at.

  That's a really great point what you brought up about it feeling like you're really part of it and podcasting. think podcasting is very similar to radio in this aspect that it's a one-to-one medium, which means you're talking directly to your audience. It's a very intimate platform. It's a very intimate way of consuming content. It's different to TV where there's kind of that fourth wall of separation because you're right there in their ears. And so yeah, you're right. it's really...

  Speaker 2 (25:20.458)

  It's such an easy way to feel involved in something, even if you're just listening to it and really feel like you can make that personal connection with the presenters or the hosts, which I think is really awesome. Now you touched before about your background in journalism. How do you think that has helped your interviewing skills? Are there any sort of skills that you have brought across from journalism or how have you learned and evolved in your interviewing?

  Great question, because I think very little about it. I mean, I think those interview skills, I can't even remember honing them. It's about asking questions that are going to draw people out and leaving space for who that person is to kind of fill up the answer. There's a big part of...

  You know, I always think, and this what I use on a bad date as well. Everyone's got a story. If I'm on a bad date, I'm like, everyone's got a story and I'm going to find out what it is. You know, and once you, once you get onto something where someone has a great memory or a great feeling about it, or they're excited about it, then you're on a roll. And it sort of doesn't matter what's happening. Everyone's having a good time. And it's very much the same. It is very much the same. And it's about kind of figuring out how to draw.

  the most of that person out and into the topic that they're talking about. The topic becomes actually, in a way, a bit irrelevant because it's always the humanity that's what resonates with people. And so if I can get to that humanity of the person, then that's where I want to be. And you kind of have to follow the trail of breadcrumbs and just being really attuned to

  how they're responding and how they're talking and how they're sounding and then go there. And I think it takes also a lot of kind of respect and empathy as well, because when you're asking for someone to give a lot of themselves, which might take some honesty and some vulnerability, you've got to be able to hold space for that. And you've also got to be prepared to bring some of your own. And I think...

  Speaker 1 (27:38.646)

  Yeah, I think being prepared to offer up something of yourself and having the stability to hold space for somebody else's vulnerability. I think that is the most important skill.

  And that's something that you and Matilda do really well. Like you're so skilled at knowing when to leave space for emotions. Like, you know, some of the topics that you discuss are quite intense and quite heavy and you two are so great at being able to give space for that. And then also knowing when to bring a bit of a lighter moment in and

  you know, because no one wants to listen to a podcast and feel awful the entire time. You've got to bring a little bit of laughter and you've got to bring a few little light moments and to break it up. I think that's something that you two are both really skilled at. And it's really evident listening to your podcast about how you take your listener on that emotional journey.

  Thank you. Thank you. And it's just such a privilege, honestly, to be able to have these conversations and to have people who are willing to talk to us and open up to us and share some of the stories or the information that they've got to share. And also because I know that a lot of the stuff that we talk about really hits hard for the listener. And so we've got to think about keeping them safe and how they're going to feel during and how they're going to feel after.

  Because I think, you know, sometimes we cover topics where it's gritty, it's fascinating. People are going to be curious, but you have to be careful not to be gratuitous about it because you have to respect that, okay, maybe something has happened to a person. They've had a certain experience and we want to know about it. Like we are curious about it, but that is also not what defines this person as a human.

  Speaker 2 (29:24.2)

  Yep.

  Speaker 2 (29:41.454)

  Yeah, I think that's a really great point, A, because, you know, sometimes as content creators, you can get caught up in, this is such a good piece of content, like, oh, the audience is going to love this. And then you kind of forget sometimes that there's actually a person on the other side of this. And you need to, you need to be able to consider the feelings of not only your audience, but the person who's sharing with you as well.

  Yeah. Yeah. And then you've got to think, well, what is the point of this? What are we trying to achieve here for us and our guests and our listeners? And how do we want them to walk away? And we always want people to walk away feeling empowered and uplifted and connected and listened to and seen and understood. And if that's

  Yes.

  Speaker 1 (30:32.204)

  the kind of thing that you're consuming, you're going to take that into the rest of your day. You know, you're going to take that into your life. That's going to color how you feel. you know, isn't, don't you want more people feeling like that? then, cause I used be able to tell when I was kind of going through a bit of a mucky mental health patch, when, when I would start listening to like a lot of true crime, like I'd be getting to real true crime rabbit hole. And then I'd be like, feeling great. And.

  Yeah, rather

  Speaker 1 (31:02.048)

  I think what I'm consuming isn't helping. So I think I need to have a wee look at that.

  Let's dive into monetisation and sponsorships. How is your podcast currently monetised?

  I think that the cool thing with podcasts is that you can have different channels for monetization to occur. And there's ones that we haven't even yet opened because we are busy and we haven't had time. You know, like we should have like Apple subscriptions up and going, we should have like a Patreon or a sub stack up and going, have we done it? No. Should we do it? It's on the list. Okay. The main way for us is through sponsorship and advertising. And over the years we've kind of...

  created different activities that we can do for brands and gone, okay, so there's all these different activities you can do. We can customize a package for whatever you want to do. And the main one really is, is host read advertising and we'll work with the brand and we'll work on the script. So it sounds natural. It's us endorsing it. We will not work with anyone that, you know, of a product we wouldn't use ourselves. It's much better even if we, you know, if we do use it or would want to use it.

  particularly if it's skincare and they want to send us some, like always open to always open to a bit of nice skincare. So, you know, that in terms of like aligned values, that's really important to us because people do trust us. We are in their ears and they do feel like they've got a relationship with us and there is a trust there and we don't want to compromise that. So that's really important. So yeah, we'll work on a script for the host read advertising. We'll approve that with the brand or the agency or whoever we're working through. And then we will.

  Speaker 1 (32:45.25)

  do the dynamic ad insertion into the episodes, which we all manage now ourselves. And then we also do like, you know, some social media promotions. We've done a little bit of that and having a certain content worked into the episodes. We've had sponsors of, we did a live event, which we loved and we really want to do more. And again, just haven't had really time to organize it, but we do keep talking about it. And yeah, so that's kind of the way that we go about it. It's not easy in terms of.

  There's a big time commitment to doing the sales aspect and we're already over committed. So we do what we can and always we're like, need to do more, need to do more. And then we just have to really make sure that we're maintaining the relationships that we've established and that we are delivering well for our sponsors.

  And I think you're right there. Having that alignment between your brand, their brand and your audience is really crucial because like the last thing you want is to be bringing on a brand and it is absolutely opposite to what your audience is after. It's not going to be effective for them. It's not going to be effective for you. And it breaks their trust with your audience. Do you have any tips or advice on finding the right sponsors that align with your brand and then bringing them on board?

  Yeah. So do you know what we found most beneficial? the, the, the, I would say that no route is easy, but the most successful route has been going directly to brands that we know and love and use and who we see, Hey, they do spend money on their marketing. I've seen them market in these other places. Maybe they would like to market with us and just going direct and with an approach.

  that also goes, yeah, we actually like, we know your brand, we like it, we use it, we understand it. Here's our audience. And you know, this is the demographic and these are our downloads and giving them all the information that they're going to ask you for anyway. but I think just kind of like a soft touch initially, just being like, Hey, are you interested in finding out more about this? and that's been most successful. It's just, it's a lot of legwork, but there's no one.

  Speaker 1 (35:01.658)

  way to do this process. And we have kind of made a lot up as we've gone along. People are like, oh, hey, how did you figure out how to do that? And we're like, oh, just made it up. And the thing is people are so accessible, particularly here in New Zealand. just ask people, just don't be afraid to approach people. you know, a polite inquiry is a polite inquiry. You're not going to do any damage. And the worst anyone can say is no. I just, yeah.

  You do have to be a little bit like forward about doing this stuff, but that's the nature of sales.

  Yeah, totally. Okay. So what's the biggest thing that podcasting has taught you?

  Oh, the biggest thing that podcasting has taught me. Gosh. I think the biggest thing podcasting has taught me is that in fact, all of the kind of life skills that you learn to get around can be useful in what you do. So yeah, in every interaction really, whether we're recording or we're not recording. And I think that the things that I'm most interested in.

  you know, like having deep conversations and exploring topics and life and growth and relationships and all of that and kind of honing my personal development to be better and better and better at that. That all feeds into the success of what we do. And it's not just about, yeah, as I say, it's not just about when we're recording, but it's that goes into every professional relationship we have with podcasting and the industry. And, you know, it's a small industry here in New Zealand.

  Speaker 1 (36:41.536)

  So every person that you encounter in any way, you, need to treat with that kind of reverence. And I think that those sort of transferable life skills of the way that you conduct yourself. And I guess this is not just for podcasting. This would go for anything that you're doing professionally or otherwise. It just, there's, there's just a ripple effect across all of it. And I think it's taught me.

  how unifying something like this can be. And I'm just so grateful that I get to do this as a job. Like it's wonderful. I love the team that we've got. We're very, very lucky. No, it's not just luck because everyone's sort of come in through some funny little channel just at the right moment in the right way. And so it's, you know, the team is, everyone is really very much there for a reason and everyone is

  Mmm.

  Speaker 1 (37:41.728)

  also very aligned. I think that's the other thing is that if you're making a show that matters to you, make sure that everything that feeds into that end product is aligned because it all comes across. If people don't care about what you're making, they kind of don't deserve to be there. Like, because it all comes through. It really all comes through because it's so personal and because it's so intimate and because you're connecting so deeply with people. Like everything.

  Mm.

  Speaker 1 (38:11.34)

  particularly for us, think, because we're very kind of like heart-led and it really is about the relationship between us, the listeners and the guests and everyone that we're dealing with. I think that sense of value alignment and just feeling.

  invested in what the show is, it matters a huge amount.

  Yeah, I think that is true for anything that you're doing though. Like even if you're working in an office or, you know, whatever job you're doing, if you're not invested in it, if you don't care about it, you're not going to be doing your best work. You know, if you're passionate about something, if your heart is in it, if it lights you up, you are going to be loving your job. You're going to be wanting to put your best foot forward, to have your best product out there.

  Absolutely not.

  Speaker 2 (39:03.05)

  you know, and so I think that is really important to be. And it is a privilege as well to be doing something that lights you up so much. And for a lot of people, maybe that is their podcast and maybe it is a hobby to light them up on the side because maybe they're not getting that somewhere else. So.

  Yeah. And I think that's an important thing to note is that not always can your passion be your profession. Totally. And that's okay. Sometimes we all need a funding mechanism because that's the world that we live in. But so long as you are doing something that lights you up somewhere, you know, so that that can bleed into the rest of everything that you do, that's really important.

  Yeah, yeah, 100%. So how do you keep motivated to keep going?

  Absolutely no problem at all. Because we love it. Yeah, we love it. And there's such a, you know, there's, some parts that feel like a grind. That's good. That's just the case with everything. There's some parts that we enjoy doing more than, more than others. Some, you know, there's, there's hard work involved. There's no sense of like, how do I keep myself motivated for this at all? Because I feel like I'm doing the thing that I'm supposed to be doing. I feel like I'm in the place I'm supposed to be. I feel.

  I get a great sense of purpose from the work that I do. And there's, it's always different and varied as well, which really suits me. I'm not great on monotony. Yeah, like I like to be in a creative space and this is very creative. So it meets a lot of my needs in terms of what naturally keeps me motivated anyway. And we have a lot of fun. We have a great culture and we have a lot of fun. And that's.

  Speaker 1 (40:45.218)

  Just incredibly motivating. And what's exciting as well is that it's an industry that is growing, that is dynamic. And we kind of, get to surf that wave as well and find our own way forward. And that feels like quite an adventure to me too.

  Do you ever encounter imposter syndrome?

  yeah, absolutely. I don't give it too much attention because there's a lot of voices that you hear in general. And you know, why would you invite someone that you don't enjoy the company off to your dinner table? Like, like, yes, of course there's, you're always going to have voices of insecurity and you know, the bit of imposter syndrome and stuff like that. But why give that more attention than

  Absolutely.

  Speaker 1 (41:32.61)

  you know, someone who got in touch and said, this really, this really impacted me. This really had an effect on me. Thank you for doing such and such, which we get a lot more of. And I think everybody, no one is immune to imposter syndrome, but yeah, just be aware of the voices for, you know, the volume that you turn up and the volume that you turn down. just, you just go, yep, okay, that's there. I see it.

  I'm not going to pay that much attention, I've got shit to do.

  think it is actually quite easy to dwell on those negative feelings and negative emotions when they do pop up. But something that I heard a while ago and I try to make it a habit is whenever you get those positive messages, just save them in a little folder. And if those doubtful moments and Poster Syndrome are rising, if you're having, maybe you had one bad piece of feedback and you're like, am I even, why am I even here? Why should I even do this? You know, you can just go into those little positive notes and it just,

  can help you to refocus and realign what you're thinking. So what advice would you give someone who was thinking of starting a podcast?

  Yeah.

  Speaker 1 (42:43.336)

  I would say, listen, people who are in the industry in New Zealand are very accessible. Like just go and knock on the door of their DMs, honestly. And if you have questions, you just want to chat to someone about it. Like people are generally quite generous with their knowledge and will be happy to have a chat with you about it. So don't be afraid to do that. I think it's, it's very worthwhile learning from other people rather than just recreating the wheel yourself.

  That would be my first bit of advice and be clear on, I think be clear on your why. Like be clear on, on, on why you want to do it because it is like, as we said, very simple looking product, but there is a lot of work involved. And yeah, I think having that real purpose behind it that will motivate you through the grind, the, occasional grind, but then that's really important.

  Yeah, totally. I think that's a really great point as well because podcasting is and can be a lot of work. And if you can talk to someone about it and get some advice and feedback that can help make the process a lot easier, whatever you can to help take some of that pressure off, to help it be sustainable, but also to keep it enjoyable and keep it fun. And yeah, as you say, think Kiwis in particular are more than happy to answer a few questions usually.

  Yeah.

  Yeah, for sure. For sure. But don't be afraid to take that advice and do you know what? Like, just enjoy it. It's really fun. It is really fun as well. And I think sometimes you almost think if you're enjoying your work too much, like is there something going wrong? And you can do, like there's a great sense of freedom with podcasts. Like you can talk about whatever you want. You can bring so much of yourself into it. And I think that that's what people really enjoy.

  Speaker 2 (44:36.174)

  And you know what, you're finding that you're not having fun with it anymore and it's not lighting you up, think about why that is. Is it because you're under the pump? Are you taking too much on? Maybe it's time to look at outsourcing something or, you know, also don't be afraid to have a little break if you need it and come back to it when you're feeling a bit refreshed and motivated because podcasting should be fun.

  And if you're having fun and if you're passionate and you're lit up about it, that's how you're going to really engage with your audience as well.

  Yeah, and I think like it is possible, like we went independent and you know, for a time there we were doing every single little bit and I was doing the editing and then Maxine, you thankfully came along and I happily handed it over to you. Just because it is possible now with the way that technology is that you can do every single part of it, it doesn't mean that you should because you need to think about where is your time in your particular skill set best placed.

  And if it makes sense to outsource the other bits so you're not running yourself ragged so that you can actually bring the best of what you can do into your role, then that makes total sense.

  Absolutely, 100 % agree. Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Hannah. It's been such a valuable chat and I'm sure this will help so many aspiring podcasters who are coming up in the industry. Now, if you love this episode, make sure you hit that follow button and leave a quick review. It really helps for more creators like you to find the show. And if you are ready to take your podcast to the next step and maybe hand off some of that stuff that we were just talking about, maybe you're ready to outsource.

  Speaker 1 (45:55.32)

  Thanks Maxine.

  Speaker 2 (46:11.458)

  you can head along to maxinlondoncreative.co.nz or at maxinlondoncreative on Instagram as well. Until next time, keep creating, keep connecting and keep podcasting.

  Thanks for listening to Wanna Podcast. If you got something out of this episode, give it some love. Subscribe, follow, share it with your friends, or leave a review. It all helps to get this podcast into the ears of those who need it. If you're keen to connect, check out Wanna Podcast or Maxine London Creative on Instagram, or head to maxinelondoncreative.co.nz. Check out the show notes for links. Thanks again for being part of my community. See you next time.