Industry Insights with Sam Collins: The Future of Podcasting in Aotearoa
The world of podcasting is shifting fast, and if you want to stay ahead of the curve, this interview with Sam Collins, Content Director of iHeartRadio NZ and NZME Digital Audio, is packed with the insights you need. With over 20 years of experience in radio and multimedia storytelling across NZ and London, Sam offers a rare behind-the-scenes view of the trends, opportunities, and challenges shaping the podcasting industry today.
Podcasting Trends in New Zealand
According to Sam, we’re still in a growth phase. More people are launching podcasts than ever, thanks to how accessible and cost-efficient the medium is. While there’s inspiration from overseas (like the Kelsey brothers in sport or Michelle Obama and her brother co-hosting), local creators are finding traction with niche content, authentic voices, and strong audience relationships.
What content is resonating right now? It’s all about connection. Whether it’s siblings, long-time friends, or hosts with a unique POV, audiences are gravitating toward podcasts with chemistry and authenticity. Society & Culture is overtaking Comedy as the leading genre in NZ, with listeners hungry for relatable stories, entertainment, and pop culture reflections.
What Makes Good Podcast Content?
Great content, Sam says, always comes back to the audience. Ask yourself: Is this episode about you, or is it genuinely serving your listener? That clarity can shape everything from format to tone.
One great example? "My Dad Wrote A Porno." Initially rejected by traditional media, it became a viral success thanks to its raw concept, hilarious delivery, and niche appeal. The takeaway: Sometimes unconventional ideas create the biggest impact.
Monetisation & Metrics That Matter
For independent podcasters, monetisation can feel like a mystery. But Sam breaks it down clearly. Big platforms like iHeartRadio operate at scale, selling inventory across multiple shows. Independents, on the other hand, can offer deeper engagement with smaller but highly loyal audiences.
Key tips:
Be transparent with potential sponsors.
Share your podcast’s mission and impact.
Highlight your completion rate (are listeners staying until the end?).
Don’t underestimate the value of even a few hundred downloads if they’re from a niche, engaged audience.
Completion rate is a powerful metric. If most people are only listening to 20 minutes of your hour-long show, it might be time to rework the format.
The Role of Video and Social in Podcast Growth
Video podcasts? Sam says yes, but only if it makes sense for your audience and capacity. Video increases discoverability and creates short-form content that performs well on social. But not every podcast needs to be visual. Audio-only storytelling still has massive power (think immersive shows like "Real Dictators" or Tom Sainsbury's "Small Town Scandal").
Use video when it serves your audience and brand, but don’t force it. Know your listener, know your resources.
Advice for Aspiring Podcasters
Finally, Sam shares advice for anyone starting out:
Set realistic expectations. Growth takes time.
Know your audience and serve them first.
Launch with a few episodes banked up so you’re not scrambling weekly.
Define your success metrics early. It’s not always about massive downloads.
Podcasting is still maturing in Aotearoa, but with 60% of Kiwis tuning in, there’s a huge opportunity for those who stay consistent, put their audience first, and find creative ways to grow.
Listen to the full conversation with Sam Collins on Wanna Podcast? now on your favourite podcast app.
-
Speaker 2 (00:10.286)
Wanna podcast? Kia ora, I'm Maxine, podcast producer, audio nerd and founder of Maxine London Creative. Let's explore what it takes to start and maintain a successful podcast. I'll chat with industry experts, podcast hosts and fellow audio nerds on everything about the wonderful world of podcasting. We'll talk techniques, trends and top tips to get you started on your podcast journey. Whether you're a podcast newbie or you've been here a while, welcome. Wanna podcast?
Today's episode is a must listen if you are keen to understand where the podcasting world is heading and how to make sure that your show doesn't get left behind. If you've ever wondered what kind of content really connects with audiences, how brands decide what shows to back, or what the future of podcasting really looks like, this episode is going to be packed with insight. Today I am chatting with the content director of iHeartRadio New Zealand and NZMe's digital audio Sam Collins.
Sam has over 20 years of experience working with radio and video in New Zealand and London, and has a wealth of knowledge in content strategy and multimedia storytelling. He's leading the charge for podcasts at one of New Zealand's largest media and entertainment outlets, and he has a front row seat to what's trending, what's monetizing, and what makes a podcast worth sticking around for. Welcome Sam, thanks so much for joining me today.
Kia ora Maxine, thank you for having me and I must admit, even though I know some of that was from my own LinkedIn bio, some of that made me blush and I'm not sure much of it's true. That's cool, we'll stand by.
It's always a funny thing when you get intro'd on a podcast, you're like, just hearing about myself, all these nice things.
Speaker 1 (01:55.978)
Yeah, I must admit this is my first time so we will okay. I'll keep it up I'll see if I can get any more and and boost my ego
Sounds good. Well, let's just dive straight into it. Let's talk about podcast trends first of all. What are some of the biggest podcast trends that you're seeing in New Zealand right now?
Yeah, right. That's a great question. I think it's such an interesting space and it moves in light years compared to sort of say traditional media. The general trend in New Zealand as a whole is just create more podcasts is what I'd say. People are realizing how accessible the platform is and how
relatively cost efficient it is both for advertisers and for creating content. So it's just growth mode essentially. And I think in that growth mode, we're seeing all sorts of stuff, just because people are having ideas going, hey, I'm just going to give it a go, which I think is amazing. I think it's a great place for the industry to be in. guess internationally, where we're seeing things go and from an NZMe perspective, what we're looking at is
The really big podcasts are doing, or the ones that have been launched are doing stuff like current sports stars. Obviously the Kelsey brothers have had a huge success in the last 18 months, two years, and you're seeing the UK and also Australia jumping on that a lot, especially in the rugby league scene. And the other thing that we're keeping an eye on at the moment is.
Speaker 1 (03:23.394)
Like interesting relationships, and I don't mean interesting as a podcast about relationships. I mean, a bit like the Kelsey brothers as well, actually. They're brothers, right? So they've got this ingrained chemistry that you just can't make up if people have just met. So those sorts of relationships, you've got Michelle Obama and her brother doing one. You've got, I think you say her name, Iona Meher, which is a rugby player from the American Sevens team.
who blew up over the Olympics, she's gone on with her sisters. So yeah, those interesting relationships where people automatically bring chemistry, that's something that we're really observing at the moment as well internationally.
Yeah, and it's interesting you say that we're on such a growth mode because, know, podcasts are kind of still relatively new. Like when I was at uni, which was not that long ago, like 10 years ago, I had one paper on podcasts in my radio degree, you know, so they're still quite up and coming. But 60 % of Kiwi are currently listening to podcasts in some shape or form, and that number is growing all the time.
What do you think is driving this growth in podcast listenership?
So I think it is, you say, podcasts been around for a couple of decades now, but in terms of the
Speaker 1 (04:39.234)
the general knowledge and the general consensus. They're really just starting together. And I think it's as media businesses like NZME and others around New Zealand start to realize the potential for audience growth. They're promoting them more and they're talking about them more. But I think the other bit is just really good content and really, really good content where people feel like they're part of the in-group, they're part of the club, and then they tell their friends about it. And I think that's just how the industry is growing. You know, it started with passionate people and it just keeps building more passionate people.
Hmm. What do you think makes good content? Like how do know if something's gonna land well or fall flat?
Yeah well the secret is you don't but you can sort of put some guidelines and theories around your own thinking that can help you get to a good spot. One of my favorites
conversations that I like to have with people that are pitching me content or people that are saying they know what is going to make really good podcast content is I like to talk about my dad wrote a porno. Obviously it was pretty seminal piece of podcasting history in terms of Alice Levine and her friends creating that podcast. It sort of was one of the first viral moments. Now everyone that worked as far as I'm aware and I may have these details a little bit.
wishy-washy but as far as I'm aware everyone that worked on that podcast also worked at the BBC. Now the BBC one of the largest audio and content producers in the world and yet somehow the BBC didn't go this is a really good idea let's back it do you know what I mean because three people sitting in a room reading out an erotic novel that someone's dad wrote sounds like a really weird thing and it sounds like
Speaker 1 (06:18.306)
who would want to listen to that until you realize how entertaining it is and you realize what sort of a cult following it built. So that's how I sort of say, you know, if the BBC couldn't see that and it ended up being one of the most famous podcasts of all time, then sort of what hope does anyone else have? Now in saying that, there are ways and tools that we use to help us engage. But the number one rule that I use is, is this about the audience or is this about you and your ego?
The most important person in a podcast isn't in the room talking into the microphone. They're actually listening a day later, two days later, a week later on their headphones as they bike to work or on the public transport or cleaning on a Sunday morning. you know, if you're trying to think of an idea and you can't see the audience's point of view straight away, then it's the wrong idea.
Absolutely. Have you noticed what kind of content audiences they're engaging with the most right now?
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of society and culture stuff popping up right now. A lot of people who are looking for an escape. So not necessarily comedians, but people that are sort of telling a story that is just a little bit entertaining and a little bit lighter, but it's also referencing pop culture moments. There's a lot of that. But to be honest, the whole industry is growing. Comedy for a long time.
sort of fit the same space but comedy for a long time was the sort of the king of Kings Society and culture is now just sort of taking it over in terms of the genres so to speak but as I say there's a lot of sports stuff coming in as well and I think that To look back and go these are the podcasts doing well now as we know there are still so many more people to get into the channel as listeners, I think
Speaker 1 (08:04.746)
Sometimes you want to try and play in the same swim lanes as other people and other times you're trying to want to maybe Skate where the puck is going to be so to speak and figure out where you should be going next
Totally. And I think also going back to your point about putting your listener first, the thing with podcasts that's different from like traditional radio is that it is so niche. so automatically once you've got your podcast idea, it is going to speak directly to one sort of.
audience, know, and so keeping your audience in mind and keeping that niche audience in mind and keeping them engaged. As you say, it doesn't necessarily matter what type of content it is as long as the audience is there.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it depends what the purpose of the podcast is as well. So I think, I think we go, okay, I'm creating a podcast. I need to be Joe Rogan. I need to be the biggest podcast in the world. And I need to do a, write a hundred billion dollar deal with Spotify. Now that's cool, but not everyone can be Joe Rogan, but that's also not the purpose of every podcast. If you're going back to community, you've got to define what your success looks like. And if you're talking to, I don't know, the society of
Nut and bolt enthusiasts because you are part of that society and you really want to create something that you and your friends can engage with and you're only getting 300 listens then sure that's a successful podcast because you're you've thought about the audience you're talking about stuff they care about whether or not you know it's worth you putting the different to it's a different story but but the definition of success for that is not defined by audience size it's defined by what it's giving to that community so yeah that that sort of that pick pick the audience and then
Speaker 1 (09:43.336)
your success metrics based on that and then be prepared to do it for a long time.
Yeah, absolutely. I'm sure you're looking at metrics quite a lot and analyzing what's performing well and what's kind of not. So tell me, what is the best kind of metric to use when you're tracking engagement? And again, I know this is going to depend on that purpose and that goal, but what are you seeing from the podcast that you're managing?
Well, so for us, the key metrics are really downloads and followers, essentially, because we run a business that is trying to build a large-scale advertising network, essentially. So we're...
trying to make sure that we drive enough inventory into our business that we can answer any brief that comes along. you know, that's what's important to us from a podcasting perspective. I think listeners is in there as well. I think as an industry, we need to stop talking about downloads as a whole and we need to convert to listeners. Unfortunately, the number just looks smaller, right?
because one person might download four or five podcasts, they have four or five downloads, but only one listener. So we're using the vanity number at the moment as an industry in New Zealand, but I think we probably need to move over to listeners because that's where the value is for the advertiser and also for the content maker, I guess, because that's an individual set of ears. Now.
Speaker 1 (11:03.642)
There's some frequency stuff in there in terms of how many times can you hit one person with the same message before they take an action. And we're getting a little bit into advertising here, but I think that's something that the industry should explore. And depending on what podcast platform you use, they'll show stuff like listen through times and completion rates. I think that's a really important one to help you engage your creative brain on.
what you're creating and why you're creating it. So if you're creating an hour long podcast and people are only listening to 20 minutes of it, that should really tell you something about what you're creating. And then, social stats are lovely and social stats are the shop window. So you've got to keep an eye on those as well and be making sure you're maximizing that because again,
we know that the people that listen to podcasts find out about podcasts because it's through word of mouth. either a friend told them or they're seeing it on social media. So I guess that probably the most important stats starting with downloads and sort of moving down the list a little bit.
You talked a little bit about completion rate. Do you have any tips on how you can keep your listeners engaged, like past that five minute mark?
Yeah, that's a really good question. Unfortunately, I'm to give you a really boring answer again, which is know your listener. Know your listener and know what they're doing. I talk about and again, his name gets thrown around too much, but a Joe Brogan podcast can be three hours and go some crazy places in the middle because his main audience is males between the ages of 18 and 30 who usually don't have a lot of responsibility. Usually it involves going to work.
Speaker 1 (12:34.434)
going to the gym, hanging out with friends and driving their car, they can listen to three hours with something so they're not going to drop off because they want to engage with it. If you're trying to hit a 36 year old mother with two kids under 10 and a bunch of responsibilities, then don't give her a three hour podcast because she's going to drop off because she just can't. Unless it's amazing, she's not going to be able to engage with it. So give her a...
20 minute podcast, something that you can easily digest. So I think again, it's down to knowing your audience and if you've done your pre-work right and you've worked out what your audience is and what role your podcast is playing in their life, then you should be able to get to a spot where they're engaging in the whole podcast. We've got a big podcast here at NZME that's about to launch again. I won't say the name of it, but I did notice that, you know, we tended to...
put ad markers at the break between segments and what we've noticed after two very, very successful seasons is actually in the last 10 minutes where there is a piece of content that is standalone, but we put an ad break before it, we were noticing a bit of a drop off. for the third season, we're just going to move, that ad break up a little bit so that there's no reason for someone to leave there. So I think you can engage that sort of thinking as well with the data that's given. again, because it's a good product that's turned into a podcast that had a 90 %
5.5 % completion rate into a 100 % completion rate. It's not to any of the podcasts that had a 10 % completion rate into 100 % completion rate. So that's a tweak around the edges.
Yeah, absolutely. Let's dive into monetization now. So how does monetization work at a platform level like iHeartRadio?
Speaker 1 (14:15.99)
Right, yeah, cool, that's a great question. So at iHeartRadio and NZME, we kind of run sort of two different...
brands, I guess we've got iHeart Radio New Zealand, which is the consumer brand, and that's the product and the app and what you hear when you're listening to one of our podcasts, unless it's branded by one of our sub brands, like Zed and all that. But then we've also got underneath that the NZMe Podcast Network. So the NZMe Podcast Network is our commercial brand that we take to people to say, hey, who do you want to reach and how do you want to reach them? And within that, we represent more than just our own inventory. We've got deals with Audio Boom, which is another podcast creator. We've represented Ted.
radio, the 10 talks, BBC, a bunch of other people. So I guess at our level, basically we get briefs in from clients and we go, right, how do we best service this to get you the audience that you want?
and then we place those ads either in a single podcast because they really want to share a voice within that podcast or we service an audience and we say we'll serve this to a bunch of people that we know are 25 to 54 essentially. So that's kind of how we do it at a platform level and that'll be similar. The same thing happens at Acast, the same thing happens at Spotify, we do partner network and other sort of locally sourced media companies as well. That's the same way they do it essentially. So I guess that's the benefit of being a large network
with lots and lots of downloads and lots and lots of listens that we can kind of sell in that way. Now it's a much harder ask, obviously, if you're an independent podcast, but equally, if you're an independent podcast, you might be able to ask for more money for less downloads because the work you're putting into it will therefore equal the output and you've got a really highly engaged, really dedicated audience. So it's a real toss up as to where to be.
Speaker 2 (16:02.478)
Do you have any tips for independent podcasters on how to engage with potential sponsors?
Be honest and tell your story. Obviously it's not something that we necessarily do a lot at NZME in terms of the smaller stuff, but we still have to do it. If we're taking a specific product to a specific sponsor, we still need to be really transparent. We need to tell the story of the podcast and we need to explain so that the client understands how we've.
and visit our podcast and their connection, their partnership with that really benefiting their business. Now, the way you do that and the research will sort of says this is that we know that podcast advertising gets listened to, it gets heard. I can't remember the stat off the top of my head, but it's something like 87%. It might even be higher percent of podcast advertising gets listened to. What we know from other forms of advertising like display advertising and pre-roll advertising on video is that
It doesn't, it gets skipped through, right? So I guess start with that. Connect why your product is gonna do big things for their product and the importance of that kind of partnership. And then also just let them know that podcasting is a really effective way to reach people because you've got trust.
If you've got 500 people downloading your episode or you've got 500,000 people downloading your episode, those people are there because they really trust you and they trust that you've really curated the products that are going into your product as well.
Speaker 2 (17:33.526)
Yeah, exactly, exactly. What are some of the main ways that you're seeing podcasts being monetized at the moment?
Yeah, that's a really interesting question. I think there are different ways of looking at it. So you can kind of go, as I say, into like a running network. So you might join us, or might join Acast. And we just know that the people that listen to your podcasts, this demographic, this audience shape and size, so to speak. And so you go into that. And that's a low touch one, right? That's really easy. There's lots of people out there that do that. And then there's all the way.
You go all the way up to sponsorships. Now what we find is sponsorships are They're quite high high touch and we love it when we get a sponsor on because it means they really understand and enjoy the product which is amazing, but Like I say you're taking them on that journey and they're often parting with a quite a large chunk of money for that
privilege. So then I think the key is being if you don't just want that sort of chicken feed down the bottom which is running network stuff and you don't just want sponsorships I think you can be really creative in the middle about how you do that and what that looks like for each content producer is going to be different but I think there are some really creative ways to skim the cat so to speak in the middle in terms of bringing people in.
Do you think that on an industry level it's challenging at the moment to bring sponsors on board?
Speaker 1 (19:02.126)
I think the entire media industry, and this is pretty well documented, is in a pretty hard spot right now. been hard for a couple of years, so it is really difficult to convince clients to part with their money. But what we see is that...
If we can do that and we have done that, we do do that successfully at NZME and they see the benefit, then they will keep coming back. You know, we're about to launch one of our big marquee products and it'll be the third time in a row that the sponsor that's sponsoring it has come back for a third season. So once they do it, it works. And I guess we there's an incumbency on the industry, be it the independent creators trying to do stuff, be it your NZMEs or
media works is, or be it your international players like Acast coming into the market, there's an incumbency and there's a need for the whole industry to be really transparent to make sure that we keep the trust so that when the market does come more right and more back to a normal where there are clients willing to spend, that they know that podcasting is a good place to be putting your money. So long story short, yeah, it's hard, it's hard, but once you do it, it's good and people understand it and they come back.
Yeah, are there any specific things that big media companies are doing at the moment to shape that podcast ecosystem?
So at NZMe, and between myself and Sarah Catron, who is the head of digital audio, who's my boss here at NZMe, we like to just be as supportive and as open as possible. Obviously that has limits when you're a business and you've got competition, but our point of view has always been at the rising tide flow to boats. I know at the big...
Speaker 1 (20:45.742)
sort of play a liberal in New Zealand. You've got the RBA that is an industry body made up of both MediaWorks and NZME and we'll try to work together in a sense on the advocacy of podcasting. And that's why we do things like fund the Infinite Dial studies that come out. And I'm going to be another Infinite Dial study this year where we look at podcasting consumption within the country. And that is in line with studies that happen in.
Australia and America and there's a few other places as well. it's about making sure that those that can afford to and those that stand to benefit in the long run from the growth of the industry are investing at an early stage to make sure that those coming behind us and those smaller people are coming into a market that understands and that gets it and is willing to spend.
How can independent creators thrive in a world of big networks and major platforms?
So I think there's two things. think one, being really savvy about being lots of places. So a podcast is one way to access your audience, but how many other times can you monetize that, especially if the audience is small? And I think the other piece of the puzzle, for us to be really honest, is to look really hard at a subscription-based model.
If you've done your work on your audience and you know why you're doing it and you know that you're going to create something that a smaller group of people love, but that smaller group of people is going to be incredibly passionate and go on the journey with you, then ask them for some money, straight up ask them for some money and some cash to help you pursue that product because I think that gives you more freedom. We all know an independent podcaster is essentially a small business owner. So what's better is knowing what's going to come in.
Speaker 1 (22:32.662)
next month in terms of forecasting your profit based on subscriptions better, or is sort of hoping that you get enough sell through rate into your podcast, as in enough advertising into your podcast to pay your bills better. And you can do a hybrid of both, right? You can have a full profit advertising product and then through Apple, you can ask people to part with a little bit of money to make sure that they get their ad free and that ends up with the best of both worlds. So I think just being really nimble and
and dynamic is probably the way to go to try and make cash. And then if you get it to a level, come and talk to an NZ bank, talk to an Acast, talk to a MediaWorks if you think you can bring audience to their network that shows value so that you can attach yourself to their sales arm. Because that's the thing, selling is hard and selling is expensive, especially in the time sense, right? So it's about reducing those costs.
and try on creating the content.
Do you think that paywalled content around podcasts, do you think there's going to be more of that in the future?
I think yes, I think mostly what you'll see is a hybrid system though kind of like what I was talking about is you'll see creators trying to have a foot in both camps where they've got an advertising funded product that is the shop window if you like to the subscriber product and they'll be really savvy about what bonus stuff is behind that paywall so that they can
Speaker 1 (24:09.112)
they can drag people in. think that for independent creators is going to be definitely going to get larger and larger. think for the big players, then it will depend on what their business model is and sort of what they've modeled and sort of what part a subscription or a paywall might play in their overall strategy, I guess.
What role do you think video has in podcasting?
Big question what a video, you know, I did the only thing I'm gonna say is I'm gonna ban the use of the term podcast Podcast is a podcast whether you're listening to or watching it. It's the exact same thing Sorry, you were gonna ask you you I'll leave finish your question before I go
I was just gonna ask if you think it's here to stay like is video podcasting the future of podcasting?
Now, I think I'm going to split your question into two. I think, yes, it's here to stay. I think, yes, it's here to stay for two reasons. Because it adds to the user experience. People create parasocial relationships with their favorite podcasters, and they want to see what they look like. They want to see what the studio looks like. They want to engage in it. And actually, if you're giving them the content at the right time, equally, they might be listening to it in the car.
Speaker 1 (25:26.894)
and turn up at home and go, actually am going to listen to the last half or watch the last half of this on my smart TV on YouTube. I think that's a perfectly acceptable use case for it. And I think it can only add listeners and adds the reach of the channel. And then you've got the short form video. think, as I said earlier on, short form video is...
invaluable to a small podcaster or a big podcaster. How do you create short form snappable content that can drive audience awareness into your podcast for downloads? So yeah, think that, yes, it's here to stay. Now, I don't think it's necessarily the future for everyone. I think we'll always be a use case, an audience use case for just listening to something.
as you're vacuuming the carpet or as you're cleaning your car or as you're doing the shopping or at the gym, you're not able to watch something. And there's always going to be products that just can't be made into video. I think of one of our products here at NZB, won the Gold Award for the best podcast of 2024 at the New Zealand Radio and Podcast Awards. It's Tom Sainsbury's Small Town Scandal. Now that is being made into a TV show in partnership with Sky, but it's not the same thing.
because in our podcast Tom plays every one of the characters, right? Because we can do that and we can use theater of the mind to create that. And you can't really do that for the same sort of bits, not efficient to do that in a video sense. So I think there still will be products that are audio only. I think of a product that I listened to from a UK production company called Noiza, called Real Dictators. Now that is...
an immersive audio experience and I listen to it usually with my headphones on and they take me to, if they're talking about Saddam Hussein, they take me to the Iraqi bazaar. If they're talking about something to do with World War II, they will take me into the trenches of the Eastern Front and they do that because they can just use the audio sphere and they can just use my mind to create it. So I guess that, you know, it's absolutely necessary for
Speaker 1 (27:33.55)
to people chatting and to get people in. equally, if you're thinking about starting a podcast, it's not necessary to start with and to have an answer to straight away. Yeah. So slightly long-winded and slightly complicated, but just use the right tool for the right moment, I guess, is the answer.
Totally two things came out of that for me first thing because it's shorter Absolutely. What I always tell my clients is you don't have to start with video. Yes It's so handy especially when you're wanting to promote it on social media and stuff like that and it can extend your reach so much further with YouTube But if it freaks you out, don't do it because podcasting can be so overwhelming as it is Second thing theater of the mind. I bloody love it
You can have so much fun, and obviously it does depend on the format and the purpose of your podcast and what you're trying to do, but you can have so much fun creating soundscapes and really taking people on that journey to create theatre in the mind, you know? And yeah, I think it's a really fun and understated tool and something that I'm hoping that I can play around with a little bit in this podcast as well.
Yeah, cool. I encourage it. I encourage it. I think that's where the real gold is.
Totally. So what mistakes do you see podcasters, especially independent ones, making that would hurt their audience growth?
Speaker 1 (29:01.996)
Yeah, right. So the first mistake is just where your expectations are set, I think, is that the first stumbling block. Because if you got in bio gear and start and you're like, OK, in five weeks, I'm going to have 10,000 people downloading and listening to this. You can, but that's really hard, right? That's a really hard thing to do. So think set your expectations. Work out why you're doing it. Work out what your passion point is so that
even if you're doing it in nine months time and it's still for free and you're still only getting 900 listens and not the 9,000 that you wanted, you're still willing to do it. And eventually you will hit a tipping point, right? Eventually, if you're creating the right content, then you will hit a tipping point and you'll see bigger success. But I guess, yeah, it's just the expectation management at the start. And I think the other thing, when I talk to creators,
here and it's kind of goes to the point you just made about if it scares you or if it's too much work don't try not to do it but I talk to a lot of creators that go filter into it and get set up and they're like get the setup cameras and and they find themselves after a couple of weeks going whoa this is a lot of work you know I'm gonna edit this video every week and then I'm gonna edit this audio every week and everyone wanted on the Wednesday morning at six o'clock set yourself up for success around what's your plan for how you actually make it and
how often it comes out and what your supporting media and tools are going to look like so that you can do it really easily. it can become overwhelming quite fast.
Yeah, absolutely. And also outsource if and when you can.
Speaker 1 (30:41.846)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's plenty of people around that can help you with the stuff.
Especially with editing because it can be so time consuming especially if you don't really know what you're doing and if it doesn't light you up, you know
Yes, exactly and it's technical right you know both thoughts technical when you're staring at you know Adobe audition or Pro tools or Cool that a pro. don't know that's just from the depths of brain You know if you don't know what you're doing take twice as long to find something you know, but it's good It's great place to learn and if you're not in a hurry, it's great But yeah, but it is it's there's a reason people get paid for it There's reason people do it as just that part of it as a job
Absolutely. Now do you have any tips on staying consistent?
Set yourself up with a plan that you know you can achieve. Because if you start with, I'm going to put one out every week. And to put one out every week, you've got to find a guest and find a time with them and write their questions and record it and then edit it and then put it out. And actually, you've got a full-time job and this is just your hustle that you're doing on the side, then it's probably going to be hard to do. So just set yourself up for consistency.
Speaker 1 (31:52.084)
at the start, but then also understand that consistency really is the key and that people set their clocks by, especially once you get a larger audience, people set their clocks by when a podcast is going out. I'm a huge fan of Go Hang a Podcast in the UK. They do a podcast called The Rest Is Politics. I'm a big political junkie. I know that at some stage on a Wednesday,
and it's because they release overnight, well, sort of midnight-ish UK time, could well take an hour. Sometime in the middle of the afternoon, 1, 12, 1, 2 o'clock, I'm going to get a notification that says you have two new episodes. And that's what I do on my drive home on a Wednesday night. So know that once you start and you've created a pattern for your audience, then they're going to want you to stick to that pattern. That's how you win some of their trust, I guess.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So what advice would you have for someone who's just starting out, maybe feeling a little bit overwhelmed by all the stuff that you have to all of a sudden think about? What advice would you give them to create a successful podcast?
If you really want to and you've gone through the bit and you've gone, hey, I know that I'm going to be doing this for free for a little bit. And I know that this is going to be a lot of work. Then the advice is just keep going. Just keep going. Just work out how it's going to fit and keep going. Because if you do and you're being true and honest and you're creating a great product, then people will find it. think, you know, it sounds trite, but I think that's probably the advice.
Yeah, no, totally. And I think also just take it one step at a time because there is a lot to have to think about. There is a lot of prep work that you have to do, especially if you're doing interviews as well. You have to lock in times, you have to research, you have to write questions, you know, all this stuff. But if you just take it one step at a time, so I've got a four-year-old and he's been watching Coco Mellon Lane and there's one episode of the show where they're washing a big fire truck and JJ, the character, is feeling
Speaker 2 (33:54.85)
really overwhelmed about this big huge fire truck that he has to wash and the firefighter sort of teacher character just says well let's just start real small let's just start by washing the lights you know so if you just take one little tiny bite at a time it just it helps it to feel less overwhelming I guess
Yeah, 100%. And I guess the other part of that is try and have some stuff in the can before you go. So that you're not always running to a deadline. So if you are doing it weekly and you've got the type of podcast that can be recorded two or three weeks before, then start with three or four finished episodes so that you're not working on next week's episode, you're working on next month's episode and it just gives you the freedom and the time to...
And then if something happens as well, you know, you get sick or you can't make one that week for whatever reason, you've got a bit of wiggle room there with your schedule.
Exactly. And you can always do like, some people think of podcasts as just the bit of audio that you're listening to. But actually I like to think of podcasts as like the RSS channel and the RSS channel is just like, it's just access to an audience, right? There's access to an audience that you're growing. So,
If you want to do something, if something big happens, if you are making your nuts and bolts podcast and you've got your 300 people and you're a few weeks ahead because you know, and something big happens in the nuts and bolts world that week, you can always dive in and do a bonus one, right? Because it's just access to people. So I think being smart about how you use that access to people is good as well. And you don't have to be as rigid as, like once you start, you should be rigid in giving people.
Speaker 1 (35:35.788)
they want but you don't have to be rigid in thinking about giving people more and sort of celebrating them for being there already as well.
Yeah, totally. And just quickly before we wrap up, what are your thoughts on launching? Do you think it's necessary to launch with like two or three episodes that people can binge so that they get an idea of what you're trying to achieve?
I think it depends on the product. I don't know. don't know if I have a definite advance for that. Again, I go back to the audience and sort of what their purpose for being there is and how well you've hooked them in. I think it's really important that your first episode is really good and that you've really thought about it and it's your best foot forward at that particular moment because it will always get better. But after that, it kind of is up to you and how you see the relationship with the audience going.
Yeah, totally. Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Sam. You've shared some awesome valuable nuggets of info, which I'm sure will help so many aspiring podcasters.
Thank you. No, thank you for having me. I mean, like I say, this is the first time that I've had this sort of chat on a podcast, which is hilarious for a man that creates podcasts every day. But I think it was a really valuable chat and I think it's going to provide a really valuable, not just this episode.
Speaker 1 (36:51.158)
chicken my ego at the product, the product will create a really valuable toolset and sort of toolkit for people that are wanting to get into the space. And it's a great, know, come jump in the pool guys, come jump in the podcasting pool because it's a fun place.
Yeah, absolutely. It's my absolute favorite, obviously, otherwise I wouldn't be here doing this right now. It's awesome. Well, thank you again. And I hope that this episode gave you some ideas and clarity and maybe even a few little light bulb moments on how you can grow your own podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you hit that follow button and share it with fellow podcasters or content creators, especially those who are kind of figuring out how to stand out in a busy space.
And if you are ready to take your podcast up a level, you can head to maxinlondoncreative.co.nz for free tools, strategy sessions, and my confidence and clarity podcast audit, which is great if you're a few episodes in and want some advice on where to go next. Thank you so much for listening and I will catch you next time on Wanna Podcast.
Thanks for listening to Wanna Podcast. If you got something out of this episode, give it some love. Subscribe, follow, share it with your friends, or leave a review. It all helps to get this podcast into the ears of those who need it. If you're keen to connect, check out Wanna Podcast or Maxine London Creative on Instagram, or head to maxinelondoncreative.co.nz. Check out the show notes for links. Thanks again for being part of my community. See you next time.