From Prime Time TV to Podcaster: Melissa Chan-Green on thoughtful storytelling, trust-led interviews, and the importance of community
Melissa Chan-Green is no stranger to New Zealand media. From covering global news as a foreign correspondent to waking up the nation as co-host of The AM Show, she’s spent decades honing her skills as a storyteller and broadcaster. But after the closure of Newshub, Melissa turned the page and started a new chapter. this time behind a podcast mic.
In a recent episode of Wanna Podcast?, I chatted with Melissa about the transition from TV journalism to podcasting, what makes a great story, and her new show, School Shorts, a podcast for parents navigating the world of early education. Here's what we learned.
Why Melissa Made the Move to Podcasting
When The AM Show wrapped up, Melissa was left reflecting on what she truly valued about her role in traditional media. The answer? Connection.
“The part I was going to miss most was the feedback from viewers, people who said it helped them get up in the morning and feel part of a conversation,” she shared.
That desire for community, plus her growing interest in literacy and education as a parent, sparked the idea for School Shorts, a podcast offering practical tips for parents on reading, writing, spelling, and maths.
The Journey From Idea to Podcast Launch
Despite her background in broadcasting, Melissa didn’t jump straight into podcasting. Instead, she spent months researching equipment, studying the podcasting landscape, and learning from others.
But, as she admits, sometimes you just have to start:
“I was floundering. I realised I just had to draw a line in the sand. I got the gear, set it up, and started asking people if I could record with them.”
It’s a common lesson for new podcasters: don’t wait for perfect. Just begin.
Journalism vs. Podcasting: Similar, But Different
Melissa explained that while the foundations of journalism, accuracy, balance, and research, are still relevant in podcasting, there are key differences too.
Creative Freedom: With School Shorts, Melissa can niche down and speak directly to parents without needing to cater to a broad audience.
Tone and Authenticity: She’s swapped the “TV voice” for a more conversational style: “People want the real and raw versions as well.”
Purpose-Driven Content: Rather than just report, her podcast aims to educate and empower. “What can the listener take away from this?” is a guiding question in every episode.
Storytelling That Connects
Storytelling is central to both journalism and podcasting, but podcasting allows for a deeper dive.
“In news, it’s often about explaining what’s happening. In podcasting, it’s also about giving people something to walk away with, tools, insights, or inspiration.”
Melissa also stressed the importance of sharing stories that make people care. Facts alone don’t create connection, emotion, and relatability do. That’s especially true in a media environment dominated by fast content and AI-generated information.
Interviewing with Impact
Melissa’s top interview tips for podcasters?
Do your research, but don’t overwhelm your guest with it.
Build trust, especially when dealing with sensitive topics.
Listen more than you speak. Sometimes, the best content comes when you leave space for reflection.
Ask how it made them feel. Emotional insights are often what stick with listeners the most.
She shared an incredible example of this during a surprise emotional interview with Phil Collins, where her plans went out the window and she simply let him speak.
“Sometimes the best thing you can do is just be quiet and let someone talk.”
Lessons for Aspiring Podcasters
Melissa's story is proof that:
You don’t need the fanciest gear to start.
Your experience and life stage can fuel your content.
Passion and purpose are more important than polish.
She also reminds creators to define success by impact and sustainability, not just downloads or dollars.
“If I’m still making this podcast a year from now and it's helping people, that’s success to me.”
About School Shorts
School Shorts is a podcast for busy parents who want practical tips to support their children’s education in the early years. It covers topics like:
The new NZ literacy curriculum
Early signs of reading difficulty
Practical activities to support learning at home
Insights from educators, experts, and parents
You can follow Melissa on Instagram at @SchoolShortsNZ or visit schoolshorts.com to learn more.
Listen to the Full Interview
For more insights into journalism, storytelling, and building a meaningful podcast from the ground up, tune into the full episode of Wanna Podcast? wherever you get your podcasts.
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Speaker 1 (00:10.228)
Wanna podcast? Kia ora, I'm Maxine, podcast producer, audio nerd and founder of Maxine London Creative. Let's explore what it takes to start and maintain a successful podcast. I'll chat with industry experts, podcast hosts and fellow audio nerds on everything about the wonderful world of podcasting. We'll talk techniques, trends and top tips to get you started on your podcast journey. Whether you're a podcast newbie or you've been here a while, welcome. Wanna podcast?
Today.
Today I'm chatting with Melissa Chan Green. Melissa is a broadcast journalist, best known for her work on TV3, including co-hosting The AM Show, and time as a foreign correspondent for News Hub and 3 News. Melissa has travelled the globe covering everything from the Paris terror attacks to the funeral of Queen Elizabeth II.
Melissa was awarded the Voyager Best Coverage of a Major News Event in 2019 and Reporting Diversity Award in 2009. And now she's entering a new audio chapter with School Shorts, a podcast for busy parents who want to help their children succeed in school. Melissa talks to experts to share practical tips on reading, writing, spelling and maths for preschool and early school years.
She's joining us today to talk about storytelling, interviewing, and the differences between journalism and podcasting. Thank you so much for joining me today, Melissa.
Speaker 2 (01:38.026)
It's a pleasure. Nice to see you.
Yeah nice to see you we actually used to work together at news hub long ago i used to do the audit order queue where i'm like the words come up on the camera so we have a little bit. i know those are the days those are the days so let's just dive into your career first of all have you always wanted to be a journalist.
You could have that now, right?
Speaker 2 (02:03.252)
Yeah, I did actually. From a very young girl, I think my strength and interest was always in writing stories and reading and telling stories. I wasn't ever very good at the illustrating part. Definitely words was my thing. And then when I was in high school, I happened to have a Nana who was a careers advisor at the nearby college. And so
she kind of got me started thinking early about what was it that I wanted to do. And so I think I at about 11 or 12 on being a journalist and that was it. yeah, I think I started working, getting some work experience with the local newspaper when I was about 15 and going into TV one from about 16. So I was pretty determined from a young age.
Yeah, and the rest is history. What makes you so passionate about journalism?
think it was the fact of telling people's stories. Well, now it is telling people's stories, especially that that don't otherwise get told. Back then, I think potentially I was just quite nosy and interested in what was going on. You know, I was probably that kind of annoying kid in class that went to the meetings and then came back and reported it to the got to report to the rest of the class.
But yeah, what I like about it now especially is that it creates connections between people who otherwise wouldn't have connections. And that was one of the things that I had really reflected on when AM was finishing up at TV3 was what was the part of the job that I was gonna miss most? And it was the feedback coming in from viewers who were saying,
Speaker 2 (03:59.33)
you know, this is our connection to people in the morning. This is sometimes the reason why we get up and out of bed is because we want to be part of this conversation. And yeah, so for me, journalism has been about storytelling, but about sharing that experience with people at the same time.
So talk me through how you first felt when you discovered that you were going to be part of the AM show.
It was, it was exciting. I was also kind of nervous to step out from behind the news wall, if you know what I mean, because I am as it was on air for three hours and live. And so I knew that you have to very much be yourself over three hours and it's not scripted and you know, there's a lot of thinking on the fly. And so I
I kind of had to get comfortable with being me and letting people see me and seeing their relationships between myself and my co-hosts. So it was a little daunting as well as exciting. And I think it was a role that by the end I was really comfortable with that and I was really enjoying it. But I won't deny that it actually did take a little while for that to.
to be something that I was comfortable with.
Speaker 1 (05:24.622)
And then I guess TV news is a very traditional form of media as well. is like hosting a show like AM is quite different to reporting on the news. But as like digital media started evolving so fast and you know, the world of the internet started really coming to its feet. there ever times that you were worried about the future of traditional TV journalism?
Well, I think we all knew that it was changing. yeah, I think undoubtedly all of us were worried and probably still are. But whether we should be worried is debatable because media still exists and communication still exists. The way we receive it, the way we consume it is
is different. And I think we were quite aware of that on AM that we were a vehicle for creating content, but that that content goes on and lives throughout the day. You know, people don't necessarily just watch between six and nine in the morning anymore, because we're used to having our content on demand now and listening to it before bed or in the car. So we were aware of the need to adapt.
And I don't think we probably, unfortunately, got the chance to do that. But I think traditional media and those who work within it are aware of the need to adapt. Because yeah, it's changing.
It is. And then, you know, News Hub started shutting down and acting shows which eventually led to its closure and the loss of a lot of jobs and heartbreak, I'm sure. Did it take you long to figure out what your next step would be?
Speaker 2 (07:29.752)
Well, I think we were lucky that we had six months on air after we knew. So that gave me a really good period in which I thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the time on AM first of all. It's so nice, know, it's strange to say, but it was actually so nice to be in a position where there were kind of low stakes. So it was just actually about enjoying ourselves.
And it also gave me the chance, as I said, to reflect on, okay, so what is it about this job that I want in the next role that fulfills me? You know, I think often we think about having a job and that kind of becomes our identity a little bit. But I think I was really lucky that I was now in a position, or certainly this is how I was looking at it, that I could think about what is it that is my identity? What is it that...
I value and then finding the work that would fulfill that so doing it the other way around So the things that I was really interested in and doing were still working in some way in A medium where where there is a community and there is that connection? Because that's what I was going to miss was that ability to connect with all the people that were listening
I also knew that I really wanted to do something where I could still continue looking at what was happening in literacy curriculum and education. And yeah, I wasn't sure whether I was done with broadcasting or not. It's, know, quite a passion. And so I just wasn't sure what the future would hold there. And so those were really the criteria.
And there were some potential opportunities for me that I had to mull over. in the end, was kind of school shorts that was the thing that fulfilled the criteria the most at that time.
Speaker 1 (09:45.066)
Yeah, and then came the birth of School Shorts, really, which is a very exciting project to be working on. What made you decide to create a podcast for parents navigating the world of school?
Yeah. Well, I mean, it's funny because, my husband asked me over the period that, you know, I was still working on AM. Why don't you do a podcast or something? said, I will never do a podcast. I said, I, I'm not doing a podcast. and then one night I was sitting down at my son's, little tiny little.
table, you know, that we sit at to eat, but like the kiddies version and he was eating dinner and he'd been talking to me about school and talking to me about things he was doing like hegety and PMP. And, and then we had another discussion about, know, when does mommy finish on AM? And he said, mom, what are you going to do? And I said, well, I might do a podcast on all of the things that you're telling me about. And I just don't know what they are. And then.
My husband looked at me like raised his eyebrow. Well, there's an idea. I thought actually, I am really interested in this stuff and that one thing led to another and I ended up talking to people who work in the education space and I knew that a new curriculum was coming in literacy. And so I got on one of the courses that the teachers were doing.
around training for this new way to teach and a new way to deliver how to teach kids to read and write. And I just, found it fascinating and I thought there's a lot here from a parent's perspective that I feel might be useful to share. So that's kind of how it evolved, the idea evolved. And my passion really is in reading because of the impacts that it's had on my life and in the career that it's had.
Speaker 2 (11:53.836)
been able to give me. But along the way, I've also learned that learning to read is not something that happens in isolation, that learning and education is actually so multifaceted where you've got movement and mental health and all of those other factors that play into it. So it kind of evolved into all of those things that feed into the learning journey.
Yeah, that's awesome. I think when you get a podcast idea that is relevant to you and your life, but also it sparks you up and you're so passionate about it. I feel like that really helps because you know, a lot of people were like, I've got this podcast idea, but they never turn it into something or, know, you'll be talking with your friends and you'll be like, we should totally do a podcast on this. But actually being able to take that idea and turn it into an actual audio.
form podcast, you know, that is something else. So talk me through how you went from your idea to podcast conception.
Yeah. And I would say too on that, think the, the perfect way to approach a podcast is to have something you're passionate about. And then, then you decide to do the podcast rather than thinking, I want to do a podcast. What should I do it about? Because, really the heavy work is in the finding the thing that you're passionate about, not deciding to do a podcast, you know?
100 % it's so much easier to talk about something when you're passionate about it.
Speaker 2 (13:30.026)
Yes. Yeah. And then the topics come and then everything kind of becomes a lot easier. But in terms of the road to from idea to actually for it to happen, it was, it was probably, it was a long process because I was also taking some time just to spend with my, with my kids, you know, my daughter was still
one and a half and I wanted to really appreciate having some time at home with her. So I was just listening to people that have set up podcasts. I was listening to podcasts about podcasts. I was just reading about things online, talking to friends who work in editing and with cameras about lighting and
about audio equipment, so just really gathering information. And then one day I thought, right, I'm used to working in news where you have a certain amount of time and then you just have to do it. And I thought, I'm just floundering here, what am I doing? I'm just researching and researching and researching and I actually just need to start. And so I put a line in the sand and I said, right,
I'm getting the gear, I'm just setting it all up. It's got to be done. And so that's what happened. And next thing I was asking people if I could record episodes with them and it just kind of started. But I did do a lot of reading and research first, some of which was, I would say useless now, but a lot that was really helpful.
Yeah, well I say with everything really there's so much information and you kind of got to pick and choose what bits you take on board and what works for you,
Speaker 2 (15:34.058)
Yeah. And also there is so much information and probably too much information. And sometimes you might not make the right choice, but you've made a choice. And sometimes it's more important just to start than to make the perfect start. You know, you can change these things as you go along. You might not have bought the perfect equipment for you, but you'll soon find out. And ideally you don't want to make it.
a big investment in something that's not going to work out for you in the end. but also you can just sit there and ponder and, agonize over how to do it properly and you'll never get a podcast off the ground. Yep.
Totally, totally agree. Like sometimes you just gotta do the thing. So when you started finally doing the thing, how did it feel swapping like a news desk for a podcast mic?
Yeah, it's, I'm not going to lie at the beginning. You know, I've worked with some people in tech who are incredibly skilled at what they're doing and they have the best lights and they know how to use them in the best ways to make me look great. And, and I, my lights that I'm looking at right now do not make me look great.
you look great now.
Speaker 2 (17:01.518)
Thanks. So yeah, there were some things that I just thought I'm going to have to drop this need for things to be perfect. And, you know, I was lucky that I was working with such professionals who would do that. so that was one of the hardest things, I think, at the beginning was realizing that actually, as long as you've got some good audio and
And if you're doing, you know, video podcasting that people can vaguely make out what you look like. that's actually all that matters. And well, it's not all that matters, but what really matters is the content that you're giving people, something that is informative, that is entertaining, that has some value to them. And really we live in an age where the, the perfect lights.
And the perfect image is secondary in some ways to the content. But that was hard for me to get over at first through working with such professionals in the past.
Yeah, well, I feel like that is one of the biggest changes from, you know, traditional media to media as we know it today. You traditional media being it's TV, it's radio, it's very much we are making this for you. Whereas, you know, media today, it's more like prosumer culture. So you're producing cult, you're producing content and you're consuming content. anyone with a microphone can start a podcast, not anyone can start a TV show. know, TV.
is a lot more, I guess, polished just from that perspective. There's a lot of money going into it. You know, there's wardrobe, there's stylist, there's big, fancy lights, big, huge, fancy cameras. Whereas with a podcast, it's you and your microphone often at home in the quiet corner of your house, you know? So it is a different thing.
Speaker 2 (19:09.742)
because I think there's a place for both, right? We turn to those sources that we know are credible and that we know there is resource behind them to be able to do the investigative pieces. These organizations are held to regulatory standards through broadcasting standards. And so we know that they are held to account in that way. But there is also this
desire from people and from myself too, to hear from people who are really just knowledgeable on a subject and talking about it without the bells and whistles as well. And I, one of my early clips that I did to just, you know, think about, is this how I might, might produce a clip of, of content. And I showed it to someone who works in the industry and he said, you know,
are you talking with the TV voice and why are you of presenting it like that? was like, just be yourself. And, um, and you know, although it was myself, but there is a different, different way, I guess, of, of being when you're broadcasting on television. um, that's one of the things I've got used to too, is that people want traditional media and in the sense of
all of those things I just mentioned that that brings, but they also want the real and the kind of stripped back and the real raw versions as well.
Totally. I think the other thing as well is, you know, that's those traditional medias, the TV, the radio, it's a lot more broad appeal than say a podcast where you're talking to a very specific audience and it's a lot more niche.
Speaker 1 (21:06.37)
Do you feel like you have more creative freedom now that you're podcasting?
Yeah, think I was lucky to be in a job and a workplace where I did have a lot of input into the topics that we covered. So I was able to cover a lot of the things that interested me. And so while I do feel like I have a lot of creative license now, I also don't want to suggest that I felt ever.
held back or, or, know, like I couldn't explore something in the way that I wanted to. But I guess now I, I can really go, okay, I am, as you say, catering to this particular audience who care about this particular topic. And so I don't have to start by explaining something that someone who is new to this topic won't know.
I can assume some knowledge on the part of the listener because of this community as well. So that does by nature change your content a little because you can get a little bit more into the specifics and the details of that than perhaps you would if you were catering to quite a broad audience. So that is cool for when you're in that passion project that you can really
get into some of those topics that your audience understands, your audience knows and your audience cares about. Whereas when you're catering to a more broader audience, you really have to give some of that general detail before you can get into the specifics.
Speaker 1 (22:55.048)
Mm-hmm, and there are a lot of I guess similarities and shared skills between podcasting and journalism as well one of which being storytelling Can you talk me through some of the similarities and maybe differences that? Storytelling for journalism has compared with storytelling to podcasting
Yeah, sure. So I think both are really should be informing and entertaining you in some way. So there are definitely similarities. I think both I've always felt are should be appealing to you as a human. know, why do I care about whatever it is that I'm listening to? What am I getting out of it? Whether it's...
relating to somebody or whether it's having some kind of educational value, but you always have to be thinking about what is your listener getting out of this? Why do they care? and then that human element, I think is important to think about when podcasting because straight away you have to give people a reason why they care about what this person says.
you know, why do they care about this person? And so it's good to have some kind of personal background of the person you're speaking to as well, so that you can, I guess, get the trust of the people that you're listening to and so that they can find ways in which they might identify with that person. I think where it's slightly different maybe for podcasting is you've got the ability to really educate and give
details or tidbits and guidance around things that they might be able to get some value out of. In journalism, that's not always the case. Sometimes you're explaining a story, you're explaining something that has been happening, but it's not kind of that step further into, and how can you do this?
Speaker 2 (25:09.998)
you know, what value can you get out of this? What can you learn from this? Which is the beauty, I think of podcasting. You know, it's kind of taking online courses and saying, here is the person and here is what you can learn from them. But I'm also going to entertain you in this chat so that if you're listening to it in the car, you've got some entertainment value as well.
Mm, totally. Why do you think their storytelling is so powerful?
I think it's because storytelling is the way in which we relate to the world around us and the people around us. I can say there's a new literacy curriculum in schools, but until I've explained that this person that is going and teaching the teachers had this experience where their child had
dyslexia that wasn't diagnosed or picked up for years and now they are struggling and having those challenges later in life. You know, that is the story and that is the why and that is what makes you understand why it's important that you can find out about this. So it's, it's, yeah, it's appealing to the human and to the reason for people to care about things.
In a world where fast content and scrolling is so predominant and you really have to capture attentions, why do you think that thoughtful storytelling is still essential?
Speaker 2 (26:51.352)
Well, I think first of all, you know, as when you're trained as a journalist, you're trained, it's about accuracy, it's about balance, it's about facts.
I think that's really important to gain the trust of the people that you are speaking with. And that's why thoughtful storytelling is important because, you know, people aren't silly. They see a clickbait story and you tap into it and you think, this hasn't answered actually what the headline might've suggested or what I came here to find out.
So I think thoughtful storytelling to me is bringing in all those other elements of truthfulness and balance and more well-rounded.
look at a topic. Yeah. And I think people get that people see that and people see when it's not happening. So I think that's why that's important.
And I think it'll be interesting as well as the world of AI gets more, you know, predominant and skilled and clever. It'll be interesting to see how people evolve to that because, you know, people relate to people and AI can be a helpful tool. But yeah, it'll just be interesting to see how that unfolds.
Speaker 2 (28:23.254)
Yeah, but I mean, it's remarkable how much AI can imitate people and empathy and all of those things too. So I think what we really need to be thinking about, especially for our children is how do we teach critical thinking and how do we, how do we teach the, you know, how algorithms work and
you know, if you're looking at a certain kind of content, then you're gonna be fed more and more of that content and you won't know that the other content exists. And that's, think, something that we need to be helping our children with from quite a young age.
Absolutely. I actually saw a post on LinkedIn yesterday that said that the number one way that AI is being used is for therapy and companionship. And to me, that says that people aren't getting that elsewhere. And so they're having to turn to AI for that. And yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:28.014)
I mean, there's good sides as well to that because some people can't access therapy or it's not affordable to some people. so that could be a... I mean, also you have to think about where the AI is getting the information from and is it really trustworthy? But yeah, it's interesting times, isn't it?
That makes me sad because loneliness, I think, is a big problem in our society. And there was some recent research around wellness. I think it said that 4 % of the population said in the last two weeks that they had felt, I think the words were chronically or consistently lonely.
but 4 % of the population is around 208,000 people. And that is a lot of people to be feeling lonely. And I think that we have moved to this kind of society where we've got on-demand media and we are consuming things in bubbles and we are not having such shared experiences anymore. And it's great that we can consume media that is, you know,
directly relates to the things we're interested in. But it just also emphasizes the importance of community and building communities through a podcast or through traditional media, through anything where you're building a group of people who are having a conversation and feel part of something. Because loneliness really is an issue and yeah, that's
That's also, think, why storytelling is important because storytelling is a vehicle in which we can connect people.
Speaker 1 (31:23.598)
Yeah, totally. And that's one of the reasons why I really have a deep passion for podcasting as well in particular, because it is like a one-to-one platform where you're speaking directly to the listeners. Very intimate. They're listening usually by themselves with headphones in or in the car or whatever. So you are really bringing yourself into their life. When I used to work at radio, was, it's very, very similar radio and podcasting and we would
always hear people texting in or emailing in saying thank you so much for being with me. Like it's made me feel less lonely. And because you are really talking to your audience, it really connects with people, which I think is beautiful.
Yeah, one of the greatest things whenever I'm working in radio or when I was on AM was having people write in about something that you had been talking about. One of the greatest things on SchoolShorts is I've had some teachers say, we've been discussing the podcast at school and we're using it as a basis of discussion within our teacher group or
Parents saying I'm finding this really useful and I'm able to use these tips with my children at home and that those are the things that mean the most to me is when you actually feel like you have connected directly with somebody who has got some value out of out of the content. That is what it's all about. Actually that is, and I think if you're going into podcasting for any other reason, you're doing it for the wrong reason. It's it's about.
having a connection with the community that you're talking with really.
Speaker 1 (33:09.45)
Absolutely, absolutely 100 % agree. Now are there any storytelling rules from journalism that you actually consciously break now for your podcasting?
I guess because I mean, because I worked in television storytelling, you kind of assume because you've got pictures there, you assume people can see something. So you talk about what they can't see and podcasting is so different because you talk about what people can't see because they often can't see it.
So, you you have to explain, you know, I'm speaking with Maxine and she looks like she's in a nice, well lit, warm room and, you know, it's those kinds of images that you're wanting to create for people, I guess, much like radio. Whereas with...
television it was you know here are some pictures and I'm going to tell you something that you couldn't see at the scene or perhaps this is something you haven't considered about these pictures. So yeah I guess that's breaking the rule there and in some ways. Also with with news storytelling you know we you'd have a story that was maybe a minute to two minutes in duration.
And so you want everything to be extremely concise and, and to the point. and podcasting, have a little bit more, more space. but I would argue that actually you still have to focus on being concise and podcasting because you can't waste people's time. You know, people's time is as precious and,
Speaker 2 (35:10.358)
And I think that something act, I'm talking about a rule that's actually maybe in both now, right? You asked the opposite, sorry. But I think you have to think about every minute being important in your podcast. So in your episode, I feel it's important not just to chat for ages because you can. Yeah, that's one rule that I would say is actually similar.
No, that's a really good point though. And I think something really important to consider. I think especially keeping your target audience in mind for that as well. Like if your audience are busy mums, they likely have far less time than say a uni student or, know, yeah. So it depends on who you're talking to as well as to how lengthy your chat can get.
Yeah. And it depends on the content too, you know, there are lots of great podcasters out there who are doing some really personal interviews with people and those kinds of things develop over time. You know, they develop over conversations. So you're not going to go straight in and go, tell me the thing that's...
made you most upset in your life, you know, as your first question kind of thing. So it depends on the podcast, whereas I can go straight into a podcast and say, what's your biggest tip for parents? So that really depends on the content that you're working with.
Speaker 1 (36:48.622)
Sorry, I lost you there for a moment, but I was just gonna... You're back now. Oh, you're freezing again.
sure if...
If I am... My internet's gone funny or your...
Speaker 1 (37:12.686)
I feel like it have been yours. can still hear you. Yeah, I can hear you. You did cut out for a little bit there, but I think like because it records locally, it still would have got it. So I think let's jump, jump, just jump to the next question. All right. We're back now anyway. We're back and running.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (37:33.438)
Yeah, we're up, we're up.
Okay. So what's your approach to finding the heart of a good story?
Speaker 2 (37:47.15)
Well, for school shorts, I think it's different in that I really think about it from a parent's perspective. I think, okay, whatever the topic is that we're discussing, you know, what are some really practical tips that parents can take away? So that to me is the heart of the story or the discussion that I have with guests on school shorts. For other kinds of storytelling where I'm...
interviewing either on radio or if I'm telling a story for television. I think the heart of the story is why do people care about this in terms of what impact does this have on someone's life? You know, it's not quite so specific in terms of practical tips.
How does this impact this person's life?
As a journalist, conducting interviews is one of the main parts of the job. What do you think are some keys to a successful interview?
research is number one for me. But do your research show, show, I guess, respect to the person that you're interviewing that you care about their topic and that you have done your research. But then when you do the interview, you have to act almost as though
Speaker 2 (39:31.756)
you haven't done the research that you have because you're prompting that person to give the research to someone who hasn't done the research. So the research is really to give you a guide and a structure for how you're going to facilitate the conversation and to get the best out of that person because you know what the best content is that's going to appeal to your listeners. But yeah, always remembering that.
that the people you're speaking with haven't yet discovered that information for themselves. So that would be, yeah, one tip I would give on that.
One of my uni teachers said, never ask a question that you don't already know the answer to. And I think that comes down to being really well-prepared as well. mean, I think that having all of your research done is crucial so that you can ask the questions, you know, you're controlling the angle of your interview, but then also being able to drop
your research and take the lead from your guest and actually conduct a conversation, I think is equally important. And I think building trust and rapport with the person that you're interviewing is a big part of that as well. Can you walk me through how you go about that?
Yeah, so I guess that one part is that demonstrating research because it's kind of, it's, you know, saying, Hey, look, I, I know what you are. I know your topic area. I know what your expert in. And so I'm giving you, um, respect by, by having done my research on, what you're talking about. Um, in terms of trust, mean, trust is often something that's earned over time. Um, so.
Speaker 2 (41:32.888)
you know, sometimes that's having multiple conversations with somebody so that they can have a sense of who you are. Yeah, I think, you know, I think back to my time in television and some stories happened, I can think particularly of one story that happened five years after I met someone and asked them to do the story with me.
And so, you know, there were times obviously along that journey that I thought this story won't happen and that was fine. And I think that's also what got the trust of that person was, you know, I wasn't keeping a relationship to purely for my benefit. was, you know, one day when you want to trust a journalist to tell your story, you know,
I'll be here for you and I'm not pushing you. And so it's kind of, guess, showing that you care about something without.
without wanting something from that in return. Yeah, the relationship with somebody and the people that you're interested in talking about is more than pushing them into do something that they don't wanna do. That's what Ghanas Trust.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (43:06.434)
Has there ever been a time where that trust was broken for whatever reason?
between me and somebody I was interviewing,
Hmm.
I can't think of something. I can't think of a time.
Well, you're obviously doing your job well then.
Speaker 2 (43:31.95)
Well
I mean...
I mean, with politicians, could, I don't think it's maybe trust is probably the wrong word, but I mean, you wouldn't always give politicians your whole list of questions because people want to see them respond in a way that is natural and not pre-thought out often. But yeah, I don't think that breaks trust. think they...
they understand that and they get that that's part of their job too.
I think interviewing politicians is probably quite different from interviewing someone who's feeling quite vulnerable about their story as well.
Speaker 2 (44:18.27)
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, with with skillshots, I'm not always working with people who are in that position, but I have spoken with people who are telling quite personal stories about the experience that they or their family or their child has gone through. So yeah, I think you need to demonstrate that, you know, you're you're happy to take their lead as well.
that you're not going to push them into talking about something that they're not comfortable with. And, you know, I often say in podcasting before we begin that if there's anything you feel really uncomfortable with after, let me know, you know, and because actually at the end of the day,
making somebody feel comfortable about the story that they've shared is the most important thing.
Mm, fully agree, 100%. And with that, guess, asking the right questions and knowing what to ask is a really important part of that as well. And it can shape your angle and it helps you make sure that you're getting the right information from your guests and making them feel comfortable. Can you share some tips on how to know what to ask?
Well, I think just while we are on talking about kind of emotional interviews, we do often forget to ask, know, how did that make you feel? Because those answers are usually the answers that people really relate to. So yeah, don't forget to ask how it made someone feel. And often they're really happy to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (46:08.34)
So yeah, just bringing the questions always back to how is this going to add value to the person who is listening? And also I think that's worth thinking about whenever people are potentially talking about their own story. You you can think, but how is this going to be a lesson for others?
Yeah, always think about the listener as though they are the third person who doesn't get to ask the question, but is part of the conversation.
Absolutely. Have you ever done an interview that didn't go as planned?
I mean, yeah, I've, I've stopped a lot of people outside court that my plan would be to chat with them. I have probably in the same way with politicians.
Speaker 2 (47:21.368)
But there's also been some really surprising interviews I've done over the years. One I did with Phil Collins and he, I turned up expecting that it would be a, you know, a five minute interview, get in, get out as it often is with interviews with musicians or, you know, these kinds of superstars that are very much in demand. And I went in and had a list of questions about
I'm not sure what it was we were there to talk about maybe a book or something that was coming up. And he just wanted to get a whole lot of things off his chest. He wanted to talk about how he felt that he hadn't been a good dad, that he didn't feel like he had been around enough, that he hadn't felt like he'd been a good father. And it was really...
sad and vulnerable and you know obviously I went with it but all the questions that I thought that I was going to be asking him about his career kind of went out the window so sometimes you know the interviewee takes the lead and you just have to be listening and willing to go with them really.
So how did you deal with that in that situation?
Well, I mean, it a shock because I wasn't expecting him to be so personal and open. And actually, I probably said very little, you know, he wanted to talk. so one of the things I do remember saying was, you know, you were busy and you had this huge career and
Speaker 2 (49:12.02)
And you know, a lot of people in your situation would have done the same thing. And you know, that's not even, that's not a question, but sometimes, sometimes you have to play that I'm your friend and you're getting things off your chest and I'm, you know, helping you just facilitate this conversation and what you want to say. So yeah, I think sometimes it's, it's forgetting to be the interviewer and just
thinking, how would I approach this if I was just sitting down with a friend having a cup of tea? You know, when you're sitting down with a friend having a cup of tea, you're not constantly asking them questions. Sometimes you're just having a making comment on what they said. Or, you know, you're, I guess, just agreeing with them and letting them continue. And that's...
That's what we do in our normal conversations. So that's often a good way to approach interviews as well.
Yeah, totally. Did you end up using that interview?
Yeah, yeah. And yeah, he's kind of, he's talked about it since, not that particular interview, but I talked about being open like that since. And, you know, he, yeah, he's had a remarkable life. And so it was quite an honor to be able to have had that conversation with him.
Speaker 1 (50:47.532)
Yeah, that's incredible. I feel like sometimes the best gold does come out of those moments where you just sit down and are prepared to listen and just really take their lead and let them dig into whatever they want to talk about.
and not be afraid of silence sometimes too. Especially if someone has just said something that's quite emotional or quite profound. It's good just to let that simmer sometimes for a little bit. And I know it feels kind of awkward in audio podcasts and on radio, but you've got to remember that your listener is thinking.
not just listening to the interview, but thinking about it as well. And so giving them some thinking space or, sometimes we call it breathing space to think, is also important in a discussion.
Great point, especially if there is emotion being bubbled up as well, because not only is it respectful to the person who you're talking to, but I feel like sometimes, especially if we're not expecting that as the interviewer, or if you feel a little bit awkward in that situation, sometimes your natural response is to just try to move on. But yeah, I think it's really important to just...
be able to take a breath and not be afraid of silence as you say. And I think the beauty of podcasts as well, obviously it's pre-recorded. So if that silence does go on for a little bit too long, you can always trim it down in post.
Speaker 2 (52:30.634)
Yes. Yeah. And, and cause sometimes you don't know that somebody might have more to say, but they're just taking a breath. You know, they've just said something that's, that's quite big. So, yeah, you have to give them space to do that. And as you say, if it's, if nothing comes, then you can go, okay, well, we'll note that time code down and we'll fix it up later.
So now that your podcast is up and running, what is your main focus with it?
Well, I just really hope, first of all, that I'm doing something that parents are finding useful and that teachers are finding useful. I'm trying to kind of bridge a communication bridge between schools and parents. And a lot of that actually does happen in many schools with newsletters and communication between teachers and parents.
You know, we, as we talked about in the beginning, we are consuming media and consuming information in different ways these days. And so if I can reach parents with this information and in a way they're consuming media, whether that's in podcasts or whether it's in social media, then I feel like I would like to think I'm contributing to that information for parents. And at the end of the day, the reason
that drives me to do that too is that, you know, we have a big equity gap in New Zealand and a gap between those children who start school and thrive and those children who start school on the back foot because they haven't been able to have the same experiences. And I feel like if we can arm parents with the information that...
Speaker 2 (54:28.0)
allows our children to start on a more even foot when they start school, then that hopefully will have some kind of impact on the equity gap. I'm not kidding myself, there's obviously a number of other factors that go into that. But information, I feel, is something that we can address through connection and through storytelling. so that's...
I guess the hope for the podcast. But I also am talking to so many people and meeting so many people in the education space that, you know, I'm still doing a bit of reporting. And so I've been able to take some of that knowledge and those contacts and that information into that space as well. And that's something that I'm, I'm really happy and glad to have.
got out of it is just increasing my background knowledge in an area that I feel like needs to be communicated in traditional media as well.
Totally. So what does success look like to you?
success. Notice we haven't spoken about revenue this whole podcast because that's not really my measure of success, but success is sustainability. And that's quite different to revenue. think it's being able to be in a position where I can continue to do this.
Speaker 2 (56:07.362)
And that's something that develops over time. But it's not the main success, I would say. It's success of this podcast is in the things that I just said to around building my knowledge and my platform for being able to take that information into other forms as well.
So I kind of see it a bit of as an investment in my knowledge and experience that I can use elsewhere. But yeah, but coming back to sustainability, I'd love to see it continue. that would, if I'm here in a year and it's going, I'd say I'm on the road to success. That's good.
What are you doing to make it more sustainable for you?
well, I mean, it's, I run it pretty lean compared to, I guess what I would think a, you know, podcast would, would run if it was in traditional media. so I, I do a lot myself, with taking on other projects too that might not be.
something that I can continue to do. And I also feel like when you're in a position to have people who are really good at what they do, do it then that's, a really, that's a big advantage and podcasting. but yeah, I have been working with companies and organizations that share the same values in terms of education and,
Speaker 2 (58:03.406)
connection with parents and teachers. so hopefully there'll be some collaborations in that space. It's really important to me that I'm quite picky and choosy with those things because I feel, you know, in a position of responsibility where I'm talking about education and something which is quite important that it's...
brands and organizations that align with it. So that makes it a little less straightforward, but it's something that's quite important to me.
Yeah, I think that is important because, know, like, with, with giveaways and sponsorship and all of those sorts of things, you need to make sure that you're aligning yourself with brands that, align with what you're doing, with your goals, with your podcast, but also your audience. Because if we take it back to that idea of creating content for your audience first, you need to, I guess, bring it back to that. Why? Like.
What is my audience getting out of it? Why are they here? And is it gonna work for them? Is it gonna work for me? Is it gonna work for the sponsorship brand? You know, it really is like a kind of three-way mesh-up of collaboration.
Yeah. And it comes down to trust, you know, that we spoke about earlier too. you know, you want to align with, with other organizations and other people that are trusted as well, because everything reflects on you otherwise. so that's, that's a really important aspect to think about.
Speaker 1 (59:49.166)
Totally. So what does the future look like for school shorts?
Well, hopefully lots more podcasts and I would just like to think about ways in the future in which I can further help the community that we're building of parents and teachers. I have learnt so much through the people that I've been able to speak with and so I want to think about other ways in which I might be able to
use that to create value, whether that's in other kinds of materials, whether I can do something in written form or create other kind of smaller videos that are useful for people. So really, I guess I just need to explore other ways in which I can add value to what we are doing in the kinds of things that I'm learning.
Cool. Is there anything else that you'd like to chat about before we wrap up?
Speaker 2 (01:01:01.71)
I don't think so, I think
You know, I was kind of in a position where I was forced, I guess, into some change. And so, you know, I consider myself lucky in many ways to have been given that opportunity. And I am usually the kind of person that just goes with the safe option.
And I think in this case, I decided to take a bit of a risk. And I guess I would just encourage people to sometimes step out of your comfort zone. know, it's, people might be listening thinking, well, it's easy for you to say that because you are used to talking on the microphone or something, but don't feel that just because you haven't done something before means that.
you won't be good at it or that there won't be an audience for it or that you can't do it. you know, there is lots in the podcasting world that I haven't done before. and you know, I've given it a shot and so far it's been well received. So, yeah, I just encourage people to step outside of your comfort zone.
Mm, totally. And sometimes it's just getting started as well, Like, you just need to put some action in and you can get going.
Speaker 2 (01:02:34.848)
Like I said, you know, you can do so much research and you might still not find the perfect solution or the perfect equipment. So it's better just to do something and experiment along the way.
If everyone waited until they were perfect to get started, would be no podcast.
Absolutely. Yeah. No, in fact, a lot of what I've done would not have ever happened. I've had to be perfect. but, but yeah, it's, it's part of the evolution of something too. And people don't, people don't expect perfect. You know, and, sometimes actually the, the stuff that is polished and perfect is what we all go.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:03:19.854)
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:03:28.494)
It's a little too perfect. Yeah, yeah, doesn't have to be, it just has to be done.
Today I do that one.
Speaker 1 (01:03:40.768)
Exactly. And there is support out there if you are in a place where you think you need it or can outsource or, you know, there are people there who are happy and willing to help as well.
And also I have found the podcasting community incredibly tight and helpful to each other. So don't be afraid to reach out with questions. Yeah, I think everybody is really friendly and helpful.
Yeah, and on that, how would you like people to get in touch with you after this?
yeah, well you can follow of course on social media which is at SchoolShortsNZ and send me a message there or info at schoolshorts.com.
Amazing. awesome. Thank you so much, Mel. Thank you for joining me today. It's been such a valuable conversation, which I'm sure is going to help so many aspiring podcasters along their journey.
Speaker 2 (01:04:45.656)
Thank you, it's been really nice to connect again.
Yeah, absolutely. I hope you gained some insight and tips that you can take into your own podcast so that you can connect deeper and engage with your guests and your audiences. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to hit follow and share it with a fellow podcaster. And if you are ready to take your podcast to the next level, you can head to maxinlondoncreative.co.nz for free tools or strategy sessions. And of course, there's also my confidence and clarity podcast audit as well.
Thank you so much for listening. I'll catch you next time on Wanna Podcast.
Thanks for listening to Wanna Podcast. If you got something out of this episode, give it some love. Subscribe, follow, share it with your friends, or leave a review. It all helps to get this podcast into the ears of those who need it. If you're keen to connect, check out Wanna Podcast or Maxine London Creative on Instagram, or head to maxinelondoncreative.co.nz. Check out the show notes for links. Thanks again for being part of my community. See you next time.